Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[peng]

Here's my subs individually (uncalibrated) and then summed as two groups.
View attachment 554666
View attachment 554663

Also, here's what KEF lists as the frequency response (±6dB):
LCRs: 45Hz - 28kHz
Front Wide / Surrounds: 35Hz - 34kHz
Atmos: 38Hz - 34kHz
But note that AcoustiX measure the LCRs better than that and the rest of the speakers far worse.

At least sub1 has good output in the 50-60 Hz range where the dip is, so I think ART will be able to improve a lot.

I have only experiment with my desktop 2.1 and even with the very small speakers and subwoofer, ART managed to improve the dip versus BC only.

I could have tweaked that filter to flatten the curve much more but I like it the way it is now so left it alone. You have 4 subs and more capable speakers than mine so you can expect ART to do a lot more.

Found one that appeared slightly different but was done on a different day so it is expected:

 

[KenMasters]

Here's my subs individually (uncalibrated) and then summed as two groups.
View attachment 554666

Judging from this (sub 3 and the L&R), ART should have no problem filling in that dip.

EDIT - To illustrate, this is the native individual responses of my subs, at the volume levels Dirac set them to:

Now if I combine them at these levels, with the distances set by Dirac ART, but without the EQ applied, this is the response:

But engage ART and...

 

[kawauso]

At least sub1 has good output in the 50-60 Hz range where the dip is, so I think ART will be able to improve a lot.

I have only experiment with my desktop 2.1 and even with the very small speakers and subwoofer, ART managed to improve the dip versus BC only.

I could have tweaked that filter to flatten the curve much more but I like it the way it is now so left it alone. You have 4 subs and more capable speakers than mine so you can expect ART to do a lot more.

View attachment 554669

Long time no see, peng! What do you think of ART so far? Do you like what it does to the sound?

 

[peng]

Long time no see, peng! What do you think of ART so far? Do you like what it does to the sound?

Difference, by ears, was subtle but I have only tested it on my desktop LS50+Energy 8 inch sub and the Focal 1028 Be with no sub. Couldn't do it with the 2.2 because the trial was for one install only. On paper it looks good enough for me so will buy it when it goes on sale. For now I am happy enough with DLBC and the ART filter created during the trial and surprisingly the filter still work as long as I made in changes to it, I guess.

 

[smygolf]

I’m not sure how audible that null actually is, but ART should give you a much smoother frequency response while keeping distortion low. More importantly, I’d really like you to experience what clean bass with very short decay sounds like. That, to me, is one of the most impressive things about ART.

If you really don’t want to spend $3,500 without knowing whether you’ll like it, you could try ART on a PC first. Connect your AVR to the PC via HDMI, configure it as a 7.1-channel device in Windows, and use the trial licenses for Dirac Live Processor, Bass Control, and ART.

Even a simple 2.1 setup should be enough to tell whether you like what ART does. And if you want to go further, you can assign the AVR’s surround-channel outputs to additional subwoofers in Dirac Live Processor and try two speakers with four independently controlled subs.

That would let you experience ART in your own room before deciding whether the AV 20 is worth the upgrade.

The null is 1/4 of an octave, so it is very audible
In a diatonic scale so almost 2 out of 7 notes are lost

 

[BJL]

Appreciate all of the responses. My room looks like this. MLP is in the front-center of cyan box. LCR speakers are behind screen. Front wides are in the corners. 2 subs are beneath screen, one centered, the other offset to the right. The other two subs are directly to the left and right of MLP at ceiling being (9' ceiling).
View attachment 554613

There are 15 absorption panels throughout the room (such as first reflection points, but also in the back of the room). I have a bass trap in the nook corner (didn't make much difference) and I've tried bass trapping the more in the nook and in the closet corners.
The waterfalls only look bad because the Y axis is too long. AI likes them.
Mismatched phase is not the problem. I've tried nearly all combinations of phase, working by increments of 1ms on each sub.
Finally, someone asked for sub measurements from different locations. Here's the sub array's measurements at the center, left and right seat locations.
View attachment 554614
Hopefully that covers the questions.

@johnmartmill why don't you just buy the AVM with a return privilege, try it for a couple of weeks and just return it if not happy with how ART deals with your space?

 

[a_ron]

Judging from this (sub 3 and the L&R)

Did we get uncorrected measurements for the left and right speakers? I must have missed something.

But yes you're right, some of the subs have output in the 55Hz region so it seems like not just room modes, but also phase misalignment on some of the subs in that same 55Hz region. Perfect candidate for Dirac BC and ART.

 

[KenMasters]

Did we get uncorrected measurements for the left and right speakers? I must have missed something.

I made the assumption, based on the labelling and response, that measurements 4 and 5 are of the fronts - not sure of course.

 

[smygolf]

So, from 3 subs to 4 (5) , front subs in the baffle wall are back working in parallel as LFE
That is my primary reason for going with one more pair of subs, i miss the edge when watching movies

I did listen before i measured and i noticed a bit of the effect one get going from DLBC to ART
Cleaner bass that subjectively can be mistaken for less bass

Measurement shows a slight difference, less then i thought
Target curve and lvl aint exactly the same, Infra is checked with 4 subs

3 subs

4 subs

3 subs

4 subs (edit - adjusted scale)

Response LCR

 

[peng]

What do you mean by "regular/windows" in contrast to "plugin with JRiver?"

I stopped using Plug-in with JR because I used Amazon music a lot but I now realize I can stream Amazon and still listen through JR so I am back to using plug-in again in order to use JR Media Center for bit perfect. Can’t hear a difference though, at least not yet anyway.

 

[ASharma]

Are these bumps a limitation of my Marantz Cinema 30 or placement ? I’m told it doesn’t have enough taps…Before I start moving subs around wanted to double check, thanks.

 

[ASharma]

Are these bumps a limitation of my Marantz Cinema 30 or placement ? I’m told it doesn’t have enough taps…Before I start moving subs around wanted to double check, thanks.

View attachment 556301

Just following up folks…I’m more concerned about the hump at 30hz…Room is 17 long by 12 wide and AI tells me I have a mode at 33hz that I sit very close to…I’m also told that the Marantz Cinema 30, due to taps, will struggle down low…Just trying to determine if this is an AVR issue or a placement issue…Thanks folks

 

[smygolf]

Just following up folks…I’m more concerned about the hump at 30hz…Room is 17 long by 12 wide and AI tells me I have a mode at 33hz that I sit very close to…I’m also told that the Marantz Cinema 30, due to taps, will struggle down low…Just trying to determine if this is an AVR issue or a placement issue…Thanks folks

How many subs and how does the support looks like ?

 

[ASharma]

How many subs and how does the support looks like ?

3 subs. Two exactly opposite each other on side walls (group 8) , 1 in rear corner (group 9) . Mains and surrounds support down to 40hz, rear surrounds down to 45hz. All with FSL of -18.

 

[smygolf]

3 subs. Two exactly opposite each other on side walls (group 8) , 1 in rear corner (group 9) . Mains and surrounds support down to 40hz, rear surrounds down to 45hz. All with FSL of -18.

I missed one thing, you have a 30dB scale, that aint much
Try to sweep at +85dB and see if the 2 bumps also goes up in volume
And use 50-60dB scale

This is a pretty darn good result, sweep is a bit higher then yours and 50dB scale

 

[ASharma]

I missed one thing, you have a 30dB scale, that aint much
Try to sweep at +85dB and see if the 2 bumps also goes up in volume
And use 50-60dB scale

This is a pretty darn good result, sweep is a bit higher then yours and 50dB scale
View attachment 556463

Thanks, yes the bumps increase with volume…What you see however, is basically around my listening volume…Does that tell you anything more? I don’t know if this is a sub placement issue or a Marantz Cinema 30 tap issue…

 

[smygolf]

Thanks, yes the bumps increase with volume…What you see however, is basically around my listening volume…Does that tell you anything more? I don’t know if this is a sub placement issue or a Marantz Cinema 30 tap issue…

Hard to tell, do you use all the 98 taps ?

I do not know if ART prioritize any range, i do not think so
And a wider range on surround eats up taps that can be used else where
Put the subs in 1 group, just to give it a try

You can also move one front sub to the side wall
For measurement, at least 30cm between point and +9 measuring points

 

[ASharma]

Hard to tell, do you use all the 98 taps ?

I do not know if ART prioritize any range, i do not think so
And a wider range on surround eats up taps that can be used else where
Put the subs in 1 group, just to give it a try

You can also move one front sub to the side wall
For measurement, at least 30cm between point and +9 measuring points

Thanks, I still have a few cross terms left over but my understanding is those are different than taps…I had the subs in 1 group before, same result…I “think” I’ll try some different placement options…Appreciate your help…Thanks again

 

[Nathan2823]

Curious about opinions on this…
I’ll be running a Denon A10H … with Dirac live, bass control and art… I’ve been running a Onkyo rz70,
I’m currently running two SVS pb17 ultras in opposite corners in the room, one in the front right, one in the back left… they have been sounding amazing with the Onkyo and bass control, I tune them with SVS auto eq then run Dirac. I have a SVS pb 3000, I’m debating about putting it in the back right corner, it doesn’t support the SVS auto eq, I know in Art to make sure it’s in its own sub group from the other two etc. What I want an opinion on is do you think adding that third sub would benefit the sound or possibly hurt the sound and just stick with the two matched Pb17s… thank you!!

 

[smygolf]

Curious about opinions on this…
I’ll be running a Denon A10H … with Dirac live, bass control and art… I’ve been running a Onkyo rz70,
I’m currently running two SVS pb17 ultras in opposite corners in the room, one in the front right, one in the back left… they have been sounding amazing with the Onkyo and bass control, I tune them with SVS auto eq then run Dirac. I have a SVS pb 3000, I’m debating about putting it in the back right corner, it doesn’t support the SVS auto eq, I know in Art to make sure it’s in its own sub group from the other two etc. What I want an opinion on is do you think adding that third sub would benefit the sound or possibly hurt the sound and just stick with the two matched Pb17s… thank you!!

I would absolutely try it !

And i would also not use any pre eq on the subs, let ART sort it out
It actually makes it harder for ART