Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[peng]

What does your Dirac Live Processor configuration look like?
I am able to achieve 2.2 or 2.4 setups using either an AVR or even onboard/multichannel sound output, so I am not sure why it does not work in your case.
View attachment 543117

It looks just like that, except mine my subwoofers are output channel 3 and output channel 4 if I remember right, oh one more difference, I believe my shows "Custom" instead of "Stereo" but that's just memory. I should have taken some screenshots before but I didn't.

Unfortunately I cannot take screenshot or even look at it now because something happened since last week, then I tried to use it, got the horror message I don't have a license. Put in a ticket, they reset it, then the desktop system is working but the 2.2 system downstairs still wouldn't activate the license, so until support can fix that issue, I can't do anything with the laptop based 2.2 system.

Thanks again for trying to help.

When I had the AVR there, instead of using the 8 channel miniDSP, there was no such issue, though there was just 1 sub at the time. The AVR-X1800H has only 1 discrete sub channel, that's why I sold it, and bought a second sub to do 2.2, but then this...

One thing I haven't tried yet is to look at the grouping, may be I had the L/R and subwoofers in separate group and that might be the issue?? I just email Dirac about the laptop is failing to activate the license, as soon as that get fixed, I can try again.

 

[peng]

Ah. I think that is called the "stand-alone" or Dirac Virtual Audio Device by Dirac.

Haha that's funny, I thought standalone just refer to the windows/or IOS suite as opposed to using hardware like AVR, AVP. So to me, plug in is just a subset of the "stand alone", but I am sure you are correct and I have been wrong.

 

[TheKoC]

Really? If so (and I am not doubting you), it is a welcome change. Of course, you have to have an appropriate output device. Yours?

Yeah, I'm using an Audient 16 channel interface, currently outputting 10 channels, works fine. Although now that I think about it, I am not sure you could input more than 8 channels into the stand-alone app, since it only creates an 8 channel virutal audio device.
So this might only be useful if you do something like I do, adding more subwoofers to a 7.1 setup. If someone wants to input more than 8 channels into Dirac they might still need a DAW.

 

[No_hair_left]

It's only just occurred to me that I have been doing the subs on art wrong all along, people seem to say that adjusting the levels after the calibration "breaks" art, what I was always doing was calibrating, adding a +6db harman curve and then bumping the subs up 6db in the svs app. Is this wrong?

I listen at -30 to -45 so it's a low listening volume and at -35/-40 anything below 35hz needs to be played louder for it to be heard. At -30 it sounds great down to 25hz.

What would be the correct way to try and optimise a bit better for a lower listening volume? I tried running the subs hot in the calibration +5/6db but it always sounds worse, if I just level match the mains and add a harman curve it sounds better but anemic at lower volumes sub 35hz, seems like a lose lose situation.

 

[KenMasters]

It's only just occurred to me that I have been doing the subs on art wrong all along, people seem to say that adjusting the levels after the calibration "breaks" art, what I was always doing was calibrating, adding a +6db harman curve and then bumping the subs up 6db in the svs app. Is this wrong?

Yes, this is wrong.

What would be the correct way to try and optimise a bit better for a lower listening volume? I tried running the subs hot in the calibration +5/6db but it always sounds worse, if I just level match the mains and add a harman curve it sounds better but anemic at lower volumes sub 35hz, seems like a lose lose situation.

Any adjustments you'd like to make concerning output levels at particular frequencies you would have to do through adjustment of the target curve.

 

[TheKoC]

It's only just occurred to me that I have been doing the subs on art wrong all along, people seem to say that adjusting the levels after the calibration "breaks" art, what I was always doing was calibrating, adding a +6db harman curve and then bumping the subs up 6db in the svs app. Is this wrong?

I listen at -30 to -45 so it's a low listening volume and at -35/-40 anything below 35hz needs to be played louder for it to be heard. At -30 it sounds great down to 25hz.

What would be the correct way to try and optimise a bit better for a lower listening volume? I tried running the subs hot in the calibration +5/6db but it always sounds worse, if I just level match the mains and add a harman curve it sounds better but anemic at lower volumes sub 35hz, seems like a lose lose situation.

If you want different sub levels for different listening volumes, then you need to use two ART-results with two different target curves, one with plus 4 dB in the bass and one with plus 8 dB, for example. Then switch between those two presets as needed.

 

[peng]

It has been two weeks since I started getting the message "... have no active license...". Submitted a ticket and I understand it has been elevated, it finally started to work on the desktop PC, but still not working on the laptop. Has anyone experienced similar issue? I have DL/DLBC installed on the desktop and laptop PC, but only use one at a time. This is really frustrating, especially even after two weeks, they seemed to have it fixed, but only work on the desktop PC where I don't use subwoofers and it still show no active license on the laptop.

Dirac works great but their license control seems like a nuisance, one would think that their IT should be able to do a better job. I assume this is only an issue, or potential issue for the pc standalone licenses, and that the hardware build in ones are free from such a nuisance/interruptions.

 

[JStewart]

It has been two weeks since I started getting the message "... have no active license...". Submitted a ticket and I understand it has been elevated, it finally started to work on the desktop PC, but still not working on the laptop. Has anyone experienced similar issue? I have DL/DLBC installed on the desktop and laptop PC, but only use one at a time. This is really frustrating, especially even after two weeks, they seemed to have it fixed, but only work on the desktop PC where I don't use subwoofers and it still show no active license on the laptop.

Dirac works great but their license control seems like a nuisance, one would think that their IT should be able to do a better job. I assume this is only an issue, or potential issue for the pc standalone licenses, and that the hardware build in ones are free from such a nuisance/interruptions.

It’s not just a PC version issue, unfortunately. Myself and several others on the Dirac and other AVS threads and perhaps here as well, have reported it from time to time. Seems something of a random happening for individuals as opposed to something related to a particular device or software version, but who knows? In my recent case it took about 6 weeks to resolve through the help desk with about two weeks time in between reply to a question from the help desk to hearing something back again from them. Requests for updates in the interim went unanswered. At least one other AVS member has said the same recently. Bottom line is, while very frustrating that it takes so long, it will get resolved.

 

[NanoGuidingStar]

I’d like to study how the Support Level setting actually affects the FR. For example, I want to see how FR, FL, SL, and SR support the Center Channel in the 80–150 Hz range, and use REW to verify the frequency response when each Support Speaker is assigned to support the Center Channel.

I remember someone shared measurements and results about this before, but I can’t seem to find the post anymore. Does anyone happen to have a link to that thread?

 

[smygolf]

I’d like to study how the Support Level setting actually affects the FR. For example, I want to see how FR, FL, SL, and SR support the Center Channel in the 80–150 Hz range, and use REW to verify the frequency response when each Support Speaker is assigned to support the Center Channel.

I remember someone shared measurements and results about this before, but I can’t seem to find the post anymore. Does anyone happen to have a link to that thread?

I cant find mine, the value ART shows is not 100% - support will get a bit lower in freq

 

[anotherhobby]

My wife and I sold our big house in the city and moved into our little cabin in the woods. We'll be renovating next year, and I'll have reasonable listening space again when it's done, but at the moment I find myself shoved into a pretty hopeless space acoustically. My current little office space is 7'x10.5' with 7'6" ceilings. And... I'm stuck with my desk along the long wall because of doors and the fact that my office is also a hallway to the basement.

I set up my Revel M105s and 4x DIY Ultimax 8" subs. After setting xover and delays, I took some sweeps with REW and then cried for an hour as I tried everything I could to get this to look any better. When I was done with that, I cried some more.

I tried moving subs, but there ain't much room with a 70 sq/ft floor that also has a desk and is a hallway. I pulled a hodgepodge of acoustic treatments from storage, slapped them up on the wall, and then I ran Dirac Live and hoped for the best. And you know what... it kind of worked and sounded okay-ish. I could have maybe lived with it.

Then I got a crazy idea to pull a bunch my boxed up home theater (theater build link) from storage and see what I could make happen. I ended up adding a Denon X4800H, 4x Revel S16's, and 2x Philharmonic True Minis. Oh, and a lot of wires. Lots and lots of wires. I'm only using this for 2 channel, but I was hoping to use the rest of the speakers to fix the room with ART. It's all very near field, so I don't need crazy headroom, and all the ART support speakers do NOTHING else. Then I bought Dirac ART and went to work. Trial probably would have been way smarter, but it worked out in the end.

Below is a pic of what my little space looks like now. The speakers are placed both where I could fit them, and also where I think they would work the best. I'm also thinking I can add 2 more True Mini's from storage as front wides tucked into each corner.

How did ART do? Pretty incredible for the conditions if you ask me. Measurements are below. I am sitting in the literal center/center of the room, if not slightly biased to toward the rear wall. I cannot believe how good it sounds... for how tiny and crappy of a space this is. It sounds SO different than any other eq or room correction software I've used. It moves all the bass vertically up in the room to match the mains. In my last office, I had the same setup with M105's as monitors with a sub under each one. Listening to Jazz bass solos, as the bassist goes down the scale, they always ended up down at the floor in the low notes. It's just a perception trade off I've always accepted with that physical arrangement and an 80 Hz crossover. But with ART, my Revel M105's sound HUGE. It does not sound like subs are playing. It's so strange in a good way. The bass is coming from 8 total channels that are at or above my height in addition to the 4 subs on the floor. The perceptual difference is huge with live recording style music like Jazz. The drummer is no longer split either. It's just awesome and so cohesive. I just set this up 2 days ago, so I'm still kind of absorbing it all, but wow.

 

[Darkatomz]

My wife and I sold our big house in the city and moved into our little cabin in the woods. We'll be renovating next year, and I'll have reasonable listening space again when it's done, but at the moment I find myself shoved into a pretty hopeless space acoustically. My current little office space is 7'x10.5' with 7'6" ceilings. And... I'm stuck with my desk along the long wall because of doors and the fact that my office is also a hallway to the basement.

I set up my Revel M105s and 4x DIY Ultimax 8" subs. After setting xover and delays, I took some sweeps with REW and then cried for an hour as I tried everything I could to get this to look any better. When I was done with that, I cried some more.

View attachment 545106

I tried moving subs, but there ain't much room with a 70 sq/ft floor that also has a desk and is a hallway. I pulled a hodgepodge of acoustic treatments from storage, slapped them up on the wall, and then I ran Dirac Live and hoped for the best. And you know what... it kind of worked and sounded okay-ish. I could have maybe lived with it.

View attachment 545097

Then I got a crazy idea to pull a bunch my boxed up home theater (theater build link) from storage and see what I could make happen. I ended up adding a Denon X4800H, 4x Revel S16's, and 2x Philharmonic True Minis. Oh, and a lot of wires. Lots and lots of wires. I'm only using this for 2 channel, but I was hoping to use the rest of the speakers to fix the room with ART. It's all very near field, so I don't need crazy headroom, and all the ART support speakers do NOTHING else. Then I bought Dirac ART and went to work. Trial probably would have been way smarter, but it worked out in the end.

Below is a pic of what my little space looks like now. The speakers are placed both where I could fit them, and also where I think they would work the best. I'm also thinking I can add 2 more True Mini's from storage as front wides tucked into each corner.

View attachment 545104View attachment 545105

How did ART do? Pretty incredible for the conditions if you ask me. Measurements are below. I am sitting in the literal center/center of the room, if not slightly biased to toward the rear wall. I cannot believe how good it sounds... for how tiny and crappy of a space this is. It sounds SO different than any other eq or room correction software I've used. It moves all the bass vertically up in the room to match the mains. In my last office, I had the same setup with M105's as monitors with a sub under each one. Listening to Jazz bass solos, as the bassist goes down the scale, they always ended up down at the floor in the low notes. It's just a perception trade off I've always accepted with that physical arrangement and an 80 Hz crossover. But with ART, my Revel M105's sound HUGE. It does not sound like subs are playing. It's so strange in a good way. The bass is coming from 8 total channels that are at or above my height in addition to the 4 subs on the floor. The perceptual difference is huge with live recording style music like Jazz. The drummer is no longer split either. It's just awesome and so cohesive. I just set this up 2 days ago, so I'm still kind of absorbing it all, but wow.


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This could be the most compelling argument for ART that I've seen to date, wow.

 

[RenPa]

@anotherhobby
WOW!

 

[AudioJester]

Well done @anotherhobby !

The worse the listening space the bigger the difference ART will make - I can relate to that!

Have you tried any multichannel content? I can easily see you putting atmos speakers un there as well

 

[anotherhobby]

Well done @anotherhobby !

The worse the listening space the bigger the difference ART will make - I can relate to that!

Have you tried any multichannel content? I can easily see you putting atmos speakers un there as well

There are 4 atmos speakers in the setup (front/rear heights), 4 bed layers speakers (R/L and SR/SL), and 4 subs. I have played Atmos music and it sounds really good! Very open and spacious and sounds like the room is way bigger than its. The main downside is this is a desktop setup, and the computer audio is key, so while I can play Atmos from Tidal over AirPlay or thru AppleTV, doing so cuts out my desktop audio. I also don't love having to use a big dumb AVR remote as opposed to the miniDSP Flex that I've been enjoying for years, with the display and controls all at my finger tips. The ART result is worth having the AVR in my office, and figuring these things out over time is just part of the journey. I love the Flex form factor and capability, but ART is such a game changer I don't think I can go back.

We are in the process of redesigning our cabin into more of a home (from about 1200 sq/ft to 1900 sq/ft). This office will grow by a few feet to be 10'x11' with an 8' ceiling, and this whole ART thing is making me realize that my original plan for 2.4 setup is out the window. I wasn't really planning any audio provisions, and figured I'd just put my system in when I'm done, but now I'm going to plan a full compliment of in-wall speakers for ART (6.4.4 — no center). I'll probably even go in-wall with the subs to save space since there aren't many placement options in a 10x11 room anyway. Basically, build the whole ART base into my office first, then just plop in a pair of monitors and enjoy the result!

It seems like the ultimate 2 channel setup is possibly your 2 favorite speakers plus 4 subs and fleet of support speakers to control the bass layer with ART.

 

[welwynnick]

How did ART do? Pretty incredible for the conditions if you ask me. Measurements are below. I am sitting in the literal center/center of the room, if not slightly biased to toward the rear wall. I cannot believe how good it sounds... for how tiny and crappy of a space this is. It sounds SO different than any other eq or room correction software I've used. It moves all the bass vertically up in the room to match the mains. In my last office, I had the same setup with M105's as monitors with a sub under each one. Listening to Jazz bass solos, as the bassist goes down the scale, they always ended up down at the floor in the low notes. It's just a perception trade off I've always accepted with that physical arrangement and an 80 Hz crossover. But with ART, my Revel M105's sound HUGE. It does not sound like subs are playing. It's so strange in a good way. The bass is coming from 8 total channels that are at or above my height in addition to the 4 subs on the floor. The perceptual difference is huge with live recording style music like Jazz. The drummer is no longer split either. It's just awesome and so cohesive. I just set this up 2 days ago, so I'm still kind of absorbing it all, but wow.

That's a great result.
What's the difference between the two waterfall charts?
Thanks

 

[kawauso]

My wife and I sold our big house in the city and moved into our little cabin in the woods. We'll be renovating next year, and I'll have reasonable listening space again when it's done, but at the moment I find myself shoved into a pretty hopeless space acoustically. My current little office space is 7'x10.5' with 7'6" ceilings. And... I'm stuck with my desk along the long wall because of doors and the fact that my office is also a hallway to the basement.

I set up my Revel M105s and 4x DIY Ultimax 8" subs. After setting xover and delays, I took some sweeps with REW and then cried for an hour as I tried everything I could to get this to look any better. When I was done with that, I cried some more.

View attachment 545106

I tried moving subs, but there ain't much room with a 70 sq/ft floor that also has a desk and is a hallway. I pulled a hodgepodge of acoustic treatments from storage, slapped them up on the wall, and then I ran Dirac Live and hoped for the best. And you know what... it kind of worked and sounded okay-ish. I could have maybe lived with it.

View attachment 545097

Then I got a crazy idea to pull a bunch my boxed up home theater (theater build link) from storage and see what I could make happen. I ended up adding a Denon X4800H, 4x Revel S16's, and 2x Philharmonic True Minis. Oh, and a lot of wires. Lots and lots of wires. I'm only using this for 2 channel, but I was hoping to use the rest of the speakers to fix the room with ART. It's all very near field, so I don't need crazy headroom, and all the ART support speakers do NOTHING else. Then I bought Dirac ART and went to work. Trial probably would have been way smarter, but it worked out in the end.

Below is a pic of what my little space looks like now. The speakers are placed both where I could fit them, and also where I think they would work the best. I'm also thinking I can add 2 more True Mini's from storage as front wides tucked into each corner.

View attachment 545104View attachment 545105

How did ART do? Pretty incredible for the conditions if you ask me. Measurements are below. I am sitting in the literal center/center of the room, if not slightly biased to toward the rear wall. I cannot believe how good it sounds... for how tiny and crappy of a space this is. It sounds SO different than any other eq or room correction software I've used. It moves all the bass vertically up in the room to match the mains. In my last office, I had the same setup with M105's as monitors with a sub under each one. Listening to Jazz bass solos, as the bassist goes down the scale, they always ended up down at the floor in the low notes. It's just a perception trade off I've always accepted with that physical arrangement and an 80 Hz crossover. But with ART, my Revel M105's sound HUGE. It does not sound like subs are playing. It's so strange in a good way. The bass is coming from 8 total channels that are at or above my height in addition to the 4 subs on the floor. The perceptual difference is huge with live recording style music like Jazz. The drummer is no longer split either. It's just awesome and so cohesive. I just set this up 2 days ago, so I'm still kind of absorbing it all, but wow.


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It sounds like ART has brought the speakers, subwoofers, and the room together as one cohesive system. Congratulations on such a great result.
With four height speakers as well, it must be very immersive and full-bodied. Enjoy your new setup!

 

[anotherhobby]

That's a great result.
What's the difference between the two waterfall charts?
Thanks

The bottom one is generated in the RT60 decay tab.

 

[Paffi]

When you have only L+R and four subs. Would you assign 2 subs to the Front L+R Group and 2 as support or all subs in one Group 2 only for support or each sub as a own group?

 

[KenMasters]

When you have only L+R and four subs. Would you assign 2 subs to the Front L+R Group and 2 as support or all subs in one Group 2 only for support or each sub as a own group?

Set all subs to support, doesn't matter if they're grouped or not. The only reason to separate subwoofers from a group is if they're not as capable as the others, necessitating different parameters.