Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[peng]

just take sub out 1 route it via Dante into your PC/Mac and split it and play in reaper with your multiple subs. Don’t know the limitations of the dirac plugin.

I had used plugin with JRiver a few years ago, didn't like it, prefer the regular version because windows will do everything, but I might tried plugin again and see if it would make it easier to do 2.2 with DLBC/ART the same way an AVR can do.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I had used plugin with JRiver a few years ago, didn't like it, prefer the regular version because windows will do everything,

What do you mean by "regular/windows" in contrast to "plugin with JRiver?"

 

[kawauso]

I think the tricky part is to get output to two discrete subwoofers, the so called 2.2 setup. I am still trying to get it to work in a way that would take full advantage of DLBC with/without ART. It is tricky because no longer have an AVR for that purpose so I can only use USB audio. With an AVR that has two discrete subouts then it will likely be easier, just use windows and the AVR's stereo menu to manage the subs.

@kawauso seems to have that figured out by using the surround channels for the sub(s) if I understood correctly, but I am not clear how/if Dirac got the mapping done right so that the left sub will work with the left channel and right sub with the right channel for 2ch stereo use. Currently I use is with a miniDSP HTx and use the channel routing/Matrix to play 2.2 but I know that is not the way to get the best out of DLBC (haven't tried ART yet).

My understanding is that Windows can directly access up to 7.1ch over HDMI to an AVR. Dirac can then see the AVR as an 8-channel output device and use those discrete channels.

So if you have two or more subwoofers, I think it is better to use separate channels for them.

Something like 5.3 or 5.1.2 should be possible with a PC and an AVR, as long as it fits within 7.1 / 8 channels. Beyond 8 discrete output channels, I think a multichannel audio interface would be needed instead.

 

[TheKoC]

I had used plugin with JRiver a few years ago, didn't like it, prefer the regular version because windows will do everything, but I might tried plugin again and see if it would make it easier to do 2.2 with DLBC/ART the same way an AVR can do.

Wether you use the Dirac plugin or the standalone programm will make no difference for a 2.2 system

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Wether you use the Dirac plugin or the standalone programm will make no difference for a 2.2 system

Yes. The major differences are the number of supported channels (16 for plug-in, 8 for stand-alone) and that the plug-in will respond to on-the-fly changes in sample/bit rate while the stand-alone works only at the currently set rate (generally).

 

[DenonMate]

Why is Dante a factor at all, for a PC based 2.2 system, I don't see the relevance but I might have missed something.

It’s not necessary. I just use it to get the signal digital via LAN from Main room (denon) to my mac room (20m) and back. The mac controlls more than just the Main room. You can use other options to get it digital into your PC.

 

[TheKoC]

Yes. The major differences are the number of supported channels (16 for plug-in, 8 for stand-alone) and that the plug-in will respond to on-the-fly changes in sample/bit rate while the stand-alone works only at the currently set rate (generally).

Interestingly, you can get around the 8 channel limitation on the stand-alone by going to "Custom Channel Config" and selecting 7.1.4 there, for example. I use it for a 7.3 speaker config. Don't know why the limitation is there in the first place.

 

[DenonMate]

Interestingly, you can get around the 8 channel limitation on the stand-alone by going to "Custom Channel Config" and selecting 7.1.4 there, for example. I use it for a 7.3 speaker config. Don't know why the limitation is there in the first place.

Let’s see how long it last. bugs die hard, overseen features fast.

 

[TimoJ]

The major differences are the number of supported channels (16 for plug-in, 8 for stand-alone)

So even if you have a 16 channel USB ASIO DAC, standalone supports just 8 channels?

 

[peng]

What do you mean by "regular/windows" in contrast to "plugin with JRiver?"

I mean without using the plugin with JRiver. So I just install DL/DLBC on the laptop, configure it for theL/R and two subwoofers, then just use JRiver.

This way, DL will work with anything that runs on windows, the only downside is that I assume it is limited to 8 channels maximum. Since I only need 2.2 so that's not an issue for me.

 

[peng]

My understanding is that Windows can directly access up to 7.1ch over HDMI to an AVR. Dirac can then see the AVR as an 8-channel output device and use those discrete channels.

So if you have two or more subwoofers, I think it is better to use separate channels for them.

Something like 5.3 or 5.1.2 should be possible with a PC and an AVR, as long as it fits within 7.1 / 8 channels. Beyond 8 discrete output channels, I think a multichannel audio interface would be needed instead.

Yes, I did that when I had an AVR there but I sold it and now I use USB with the minDSP HTx that has 8 channels, but configuring it in 2.2 only works fine during calibration. After that, when use to listen to stereo music, there are no outputs to the subwoofers, the only way to have outputs to the two subs are to use the HTx's channel routing such that channel 3 and channel 4 will output to sub1 and sub2, but the inputs are still just channel 1 and channel 2 so that defeat the full benefits of the bass control license, and the same will apply to ART.

Until I can get around this issue, I won't bother trying ART, yet. If not, then I guess I might have to buy an AVR, or get the Tide 16 for the HT and relocate the Anthem AVP there to the 2 ch stereo system for use with DLBC/ART.

 

[Mort]

After that, when use to listen to stereo music, there are no outputs to the subwoofers, the only way to have outputs to the two subs are to use the HTx's channel routing such that channel 3 and channel 4 will output to sub1 and sub2, but the inputs are still just channel 1 and channel 2 so that defeat the full benefits of the bass control license, and the same will apply to ART.

I'm not understanding. That's seems like it's working as intended. Use the matrix mixer.

 

[peng]

I'm not understanding. That's seems like it's working as intended. Use the matrix mixer.

I can only say me neither Lol. I agree with you to some extent, and the result isn't bad as such, but I don't think it is as good as using an AVR, when bass control is used. With an AVR via HDMI to the PC, I think the AVR will output the signal to sub1 and sub2 that mirrors the signal during DLBC calibration. whereas the miniDSP channel routing/matrix way seems a little difference.

I think for DL, it will be fine, but for DLBC, using the HTx USB input, and use channel routing and matrix to create the signals for S1 and S2 would partially defeat the purpose of DLBC. I find it a little tough to explain my point clearly so far. May be another day when I have enough coffee.

 

[kawauso]

I can only say me neither Lol. I agree with you to some extent, and the result isn't bad as such, but I don't think it is as good as using an AVR, when bass control is used. With an AVR via HDMI to the PC, I think the AVR will output the signal to sub1 and sub2 that mirrors the signal during DLBC calibration. whereas the miniDSP channel routing/matrix way seems a little difference.

I think for DL, it will be fine, but for DLBC, using the HTx USB input, and use channel routing and matrix to create the signals for S1 and S2 would partially defeat the purpose of DLBC. I find it a little tough to explain my point clearly so far. May be another day when I have enough coffee.

When using the Dirac Virtual Audio Device as the Windows sound device, Dirac Live Processor handles the routing and assigns the signal to each output channel.

So for 2ch playback, it should behave just like playback through an AVR’s own bass management: the 2ch input is handled by Dirac, and Dirac generates/manages the outputs to the mains and subs.

Simply copying L/R to the sub channels with an external matrix seems wrong to me. That may produce sound from the subs, but it is not the same as letting DLBC/ART manage the subwoofer channels directly.

In a proper 2.2 setup, I would expect Dirac itself to take the 2ch input and route/manage the outputs to L main, R main, Sub 1 and Sub 2.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

Yes, if avr - ADC via usb or dante to PC/Mac (with dirac) - digital back to DAC to external amps. It doesn’t matter how old or weak your AVR is. It’s then just for decoding 3Daudio. (if the avr has preouts or just buy something like nuprime AoIP).

This is what I’m doing. I’ve just bought a RME Digiface USB and 2 Behringer ADA8200s for adc to RME via adat

 

[peng]

When using the Dirac Virtual Audio Device as the Windows sound device, Dirac Live Processor handles the routing and assigns the signal to each output channel.

So for 2ch playback, it should behave just like playback through an AVR’s own bass management: the 2ch input is handled by Dirac, and Dirac generates/manages the outputs to the mains and subs.

Simply copying L/R to the sub channels with an external matrix seems wrong to me. That may produce sound from the subs, but it is not the same as letting DLBC/ART manage the subwoofer channels directly.

In a proper 2.2 setup, I would expect Dirac itself to take the 2ch input and route/manage the outputs to L main, R main, Sub 1 and Sub 2.

Exactly my point, thank you very much for expressing my point better than I can.

Unfortunately I have not figured out how to do it with just Dirac and the miniDSP used as a multichannel dac (without using the channel routing matrix).

Maybe @Flak can help?

 

[DenonMate]

This is what I’m doing. I’ve just bought a RME Digiface USB and 2 Behringer ADA8200s for adc to RME via adat

It’s a pity that Dolby or who else forces users to go the DAC/ADC way instead digital decoding and going directly into a dsp with 7.x.4 or more. Alone the wasted heat of thousands of AVRs makes them one of the unnecessary polluters.
I red that dolby is this restrictive, but there is the nuprime and others. Who is it, D&M, apple?

 

[kawauso]

Exactly my point, thank you very much for expressing my point better than I can.

Unfortunately I have not figured out how to do it with just Dirac and the miniDSP used as a multichannel dac (without using the channel routing matrix).

Maybe @Flak can help?

What does your Dirac Live Processor configuration look like?
I am able to achieve 2.2 or 2.4 setups using either an AVR or even onboard/multichannel sound output, so I am not sure why it does not work in your case.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Interestingly, you can get around the 8 channel limitation on the stand-alone by going to "Custom Channel Config" and selecting 7.1.4 there, for example. I use it for a 7.3 speaker config. Don't know why the limitation is there in the first place.

Really? If so (and I am not doubting you), it is a welcome change. Of course, you have to have an appropriate output device. Yours?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I mean without using the plugin with JRiver. So I just install DL/DLBC on the laptop, configure it for theL/R and two subwoofers, then just use JRiver.

Ah. I think that is called the "stand-alone" or Dirac Virtual Audio Device by Dirac.