Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[Oddball]

While I’ve never heard our primary immersive system except with ART, so it’s possible the front wall sub array (4 subs, 1 in each corner of the front wall) is just naturally a great fit for the room, but I will say I don’t know if I’ve ever heard better bass reproduction — basically take top notch headphone bass sound and add whole body tactility that hits but does not hang in the room.

Oh well this border lines with poetry, while being entirely scientific. Well said and put into perspective that some other members could understand.

 

[Keith_W]

I've looked at the graphs, but it's difficult for me to know how well they translate into audible performance.

You can not directly translate someone else's experience into your own. They have different rooms, different speakers, may have more subwoofers, may have placed the subs in better positions, etc. All that can be said is that it is likely they will improve the performance of bass in your room, but how much improvement is very much a "your mileage may vary" situation. For e.g. the bass decay in my room is already very fast, thanks to my room being leaky for bass and reflective for higher frequencies. I think that any improvements that ART would bring for me would be pretty marginal.

 

[jhaider]

While I’ve never heard our primary immersive system except with ART, so it’s possible the front wall sub array (4 subs, 1 in each corner of the front wall) is just naturally a great fit for the room, but I will say I don’t know if I’ve ever heard better bass reproduction — basically take top notch headphone bass sound and add whole body tactility that hits but does not hang in the room.

One thing to add to this is I do not have a large bass boost. The natural rise of my speakers was about 3dB and that’s where I ended up after some experimentation. But I do use loudness compensation so the boost is higher for most listening.

 

[Frank207be]

The effect ART has have surprised most of us and how users perceivers it differs widely.

Take dirac bass control (DLBC) vs ART - we can have identical respons but decay on ART is much lower.
Some users Loves it, others needs to settle in and get used to it etc

Several weeks ago an "audiophile" friend visited me for a listening session and he wasn't 100% comfortable with the dry impactful bass of my ART setup. He "missed" the deep bass decay that he was used to hear from his speakers in his untreated room and insisited on listening in "pure direct" mode.

OTOH I had a Dutch forum member visiting me for the same purpose and he could clearly pinpoint the difference between DLBC and ART and liked it. He's going to buy the basic Dirac Live Room Correction and might upgrade to ART on a later date.

 

[Oddball]

You can not directly translate someone else's experience into your own. They have different rooms, different speakers, may have more subwoofers, may have placed the subs in better positions, etc. All that can be said is that it is likely they will improve the performance of bass in your room, but how much improvement is very much a "your mileage may vary" situation. For e.g. the bass decay in my room is already very fast, thanks to my room being leaky for bass and reflective for higher frequencies. I think that any improvements that ART would bring for me would be pretty marginal.

As you said - difficult to translate and lots gets lost in translation. Could the only way be to try it out rather than assume, even if assumption is built on tons of knowledge and experience?

 

[Dj7675]

Does Dirac Art really improve decay times by a noticeable amount, so that's audibly obvious? Is it night and day or more of a "might be noticeable depending on the situation"? I would hate to spend all the money on an AVR that supports this, buy the license and still have a "did it really improve the sound or was I imagining it?" type improvement.

Depends on the room IMO. Most average rooms, it is obvious. But take a really good room, with already low decay, probably not. In my two rooms I have used it, it is obvious.

 

[Dimitrov]

Depends on the room IMO. Most average rooms, it is obvious. But take a really good room, with already low decay, probably not. In my two rooms I have used it, it is obvious. In my old room,

Thanks for the response, that goes to everyone who responded as well. The one area I've always felt my system needed help was in the bass decay times. I have GIK 244 "basstraps" on my rear wall (4 of them) and 2 behind my main speakers which are more like broadband absorbers but don't really do much in the 60-80 Hz range.

Maybe one day I will upgrade my AVR, get Dirac and play around with a few more subs. I've got SVS PB1000 Pro's which, while not super large. are also not very small either (IMO). So the idea of getting more to put around the room makes me sick. Unless I consider getting smaller sealed subs, but then I'd probably have to get an all sealed sub system. Probably not a good idea to have a combination of sealed and ported in one room.

 

[middlemarch]

Thanks for the response, that goes to everyone who responded as well. The one area I've always felt my system needed help was in the bass decay times. I have GIK 244 "basstraps" on my rear wall (4 of them) and 2 behind my main speakers which are more like broadband absorbers but don't really do much in the 60-80 Hz range.

Maybe one day I will upgrade my AVR, get Dirac and play around with a few more subs. I've got SVS PB1000 Pro's which, while not super large. are also not very small either (IMO). So the idea of getting more to put around the room makes me sick. Unless I consider getting smaller sealed subs, but then I'd probably have to get an all sealed sub system. Probably not a good idea to have a combination of sealed and ported in one room.

Single data point, but I have three sealed subs and one ported. All different (dual 12" sealed, 18" sealed, 15" sealed and 15" ported). The ported is the one designated as #1, LFE, by ART. Probably sub optimal, but it works great, I have no desire to change anything. Many folks report great results with just two subs. If I was you I'd just bite the bullet and get the AVR and Dirac, only do subs if you feel you didn't get to where you wanted to be. You might be surprised in a good way.

 

[Oddball]

Thanks for the response, that goes to everyone who responded as well. The one area I've always felt my system needed help was in the bass decay times. I have GIK 244 "basstraps" on my rear wall (4 of them) and 2 behind my main speakers which are more like broadband absorbers but don't really do much in the 60-80 Hz range.

Maybe one day I will upgrade my AVR, get Dirac and play around with a few more subs. I've got SVS PB1000 Pro's which, while not super large. are also not very small either (IMO). So the idea of getting more to put around the room makes me sick. Unless I consider getting smaller sealed subs, but then I'd probably have to get an all sealed sub system. Probably not a good idea to have a combination of sealed and ported in one room.

Sorry to disappoint, and by no means I mean this in a mean way, but PB 1000 is a small sub. Smallest sub in the SVS house that has plenty more to offer.

 

[middlemarch]

Sorry to disappoint, and by no means I mean this in a mean way, but PB 1000 is a small sub. Smallest sub in the SVS house that has plenty more to offer.

But we all know, you’re a bass head, Oddball. I’ve seen your other posts!

 

[Mort]

Sorry to disappoint, and by no means I mean this in a mean way, but PB 1000 is a small sub. Smallest sub in the SVS house that has plenty more to offer.

There are smaller, including at SVS. It's a 12" ported sub that does 17-200. It's just got a small amp at 325 watts. No slouch.

 

[Dimitrov]

Sorry to disappoint, and by no means I mean this in a mean way, but PB 1000 is a small sub. Smallest sub in the SVS house that has plenty more to offer.

Size is relative. A B&W ASW-608 is a small compact sub to me. The PB1000 looks like a monster next to it. Yes, you can get much larger subs, I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that for me, the PB1000 is quite large.

 

[Oddball]

There are smaller, including at SVS. It's a 12" ported sub that does 17-200. It's just got a small amp at 325 watts. No slouch.

Depends on the room of course. For some it might be the right choice. I was quite happy with SVS 3000 micro that was a dedicated sub for my center. But with ART no real need for extra sub anymore.

 

[Frank207be]

Depends on the room of course. For some it might be the right choice. I was quite happy with SVS 3000 micro that was a dedicated sub for my center. But with ART no real need for extra sub anymore.

Agreed 100%. I wanted to add dual 15" woofers to each surround speaker but it makes no sense since I raised support for all 4 subs to 150Hz. Now they're sitting in their enclosures simply doing nothing...

 

[Miniyouuuu]

An optimal position for mids and highs may not be the most suitable location for lows. By utilizing external subwoofers, it is possible to achieve improved bass uniformity and even cancellations. However, these subwoofers will necessitate high-pass filtering for speakers operating at extremely low frequencies. In such instances, full-range towers may not be necessary.

 

[Oddball]

An optimal position for mids and highs may not be the most suitable location for lows. By utilizing external subwoofers, it is possible to achieve improved bass uniformity and even cancellations. However, these subwoofers will necessitate high-pass filtering for speakers operating at extremely low frequencies. In such instances, full-range towers may not be necessary.

There are several approaches to ART and they are all valid. It ultimately depends on the SPL you are after. Full range towers and one sub seem to do well if you don't stretch them too far.

If you want to really bang it, you will need 2-4 subs depending on the room volume, and then it does not really matter if you have bookshelves or towers as long as they can keep up with the SPL. For example, Arendal 1528 bookshelves or Perlisten R/S class bookshelves are designed to to really loud. Unfortunately they have a price tag to match the capabilities.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

The issue at hand extends beyond SPL. The placement of the bass is of paramount importance. Ideally, both tweeters should be positioned in a triangular configuration with the listener’s ears. However, the uniformity of the bass is influenced by the room’s layout, wall absorption, and other factors. To achieve optimal bass control, it is essential to have independent EQ settings for the lows, enabling the management of gain and delay independently for each bass component. Furthermore, there are techniques that facilitate voluntary cancellations between different subwoofers. This is where Dirac ART truly excels.

 

[Oddball]

The issue at hand extends beyond SPL. The placement of the bass is of paramount importance. Ideally, both tweeters should be positioned in a triangular configuration with the listener’s ears. However, the uniformity of the bass is influenced by the room’s layout, wall absorption, and other factors. To achieve optimal bass control, it is essential to have independent EQ settings for the lows, enabling the management of gain and delay independently for each bass component. Furthermore, there are techniques that facilitate voluntary cancellations between different subwoofers. This is where Dirac ART truly excels.

The issue at hand does not extend beyond SPL. At least the issue I raised. I can sense AI in your posts, which could be used for the purposes of translation if English is a challenge - but then the posts should make some sense and make the point. Your point is no point at all.

 

[rkrkrk]

Does ART negate the need for sub management with something like a MiniDSP?

 

[Mort]

Does ART negate the need for sub management with something like a MiniDSP?

Correct. You do not set a crossover. ART takes care of it.