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Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

Derboy said:
Guys what's the consensus on the following?

1. Speaker support ranges - Should these be based on the useable energy being shown on the pre-correction response graphs at the MLP for each speaker or simply based on the capabilities of the F3 (plus a buffer) value of each speaker regardless of how it performs in-room?
2. F-support High of "supporter speaker" to "supported speaker"- should this be the same as FSISO or up to the F-Support Low value of the speaker that it's supporting? If 150hz, do you reduce this for speakers close to the MLP to a non-localised range such as 80hz for example?
Click to expand...
1. Dirac will automatically detect the support range. They note alternative of F3 +20hz in case one wonders. Lots of other options available if willing to experiment. Has also to do with your expected SPL. For higher SPL, range and levels should be adjusted down in most systems. Eg if you sweep at 75dB, and want to listen at 85dB average, you should tone down a bit for the difference, unless very confident with your system at those levels.

2. In my experience lowering the higher range of support would not be warranted. If there are some localization issues, then the level, not range, of support should be adjusted first. This can happen in stereo setups. For multichannel less likely as soundstage is really busy. But then it really depends on the system and room, so general observations might not apply equally to all.
 
Oddball said:
1. Dirac will automatically detect the support range. They note alternative of F3 +20hz in case one wonders. Lots of other options available if willing to experiment. Has also to do with your expected SPL. For higher SPL, range and levels should be adjusted down in most systems. Eg if you sweep at 75dB, and want to listen at 85dB average, you should tone down a bit for the difference, unless very confident with your system at those levels.

2. In my experience lowering the higher range of support would not be warranted. If there are some localization issues, then the level, not range, of support should be adjusted first. This can happen in stereo setups. For multichannel less likely as soundstage is really busy. But then it really depends on the system and room, so general observations might not apply equally to all.
Click to expand...

Dirac just defaults the lower support range to 50hz to 150hz in my set up. The only thing it changes is one of the subs.

The quoted Storm Audio-derived ART guide earlier in this thread favours reducing the top end of the support ranges. To be honest, though I can't really hear any difference no matter how I adjust the support ranges. The biggest differences seem to be The topology which speakers support which and the levels.
 
Web Dove said:
Do I need to own Dirac Live Bass Control for the beta to function or is that included in the beta?
Click to expand...
It is the exact same software for DLRC, DLBC and DLART... but the software will show the options relating to your licenses.
 
EngineerNate said:
You have to own DLBC to purchase ART from dirac to use with the beta software on the HTP-1.
Click to expand...
DL RC is stand alone.
DL BC requires DL RC
DL ART requires BC if and only if subs are present, but always requires RC

The same software is used for all the above
 
Rolled the curtains on my mains down to 1k and switched to a target curve based on the spinorama preference curve (attached) and I like the sound much better. 1k was where the major squiggles calmed down. I also made curves cut off at 600 and 450hz to try but the difference between 1000/600 (haven’t listened to 450 yet) and letting the speakers do their thing above a reasonable cutoff seems less drastic.
 

Attachments

EngineerNate said:
Rolled the curtains on my mains down to 1k and switched to a target curve based on the spinorama preference curve (attached) and I like the sound much better. 1k was where the major squiggles calmed down. I also made curves cut off at 600 and 450hz to try but the difference between 1000/600 (haven’t listened to 450 yet) and letting the speakers do their thing above a reasonable cutoff seems less drastic.
Click to expand...
I suggest you measure them. Usually lots of crap happening in the mid range range as well. Going by ear above 1K is not a bad option but always good to have the baseline to compare to.
 
Oddball said:
I suggest you measure them. Usually lots of crap happening in the mid range range as well. Going by ear above 1K is not a bad option but always good to have the baseline to compare to.
Click to expand...
Yeah I picked 1000hz based on the raw curves Dirac was showing me.

These speakers got nearly perfect above that, compared to the spinorama preference curve. Not surprising considering Toole designed them.
 
Image 1-16-26 at 10.48 PM.jpeg


Corrected:
Image 1-16-26 at 10.51 PM.jpeg
 
I’m hoping some of you ART gurus can help me.

Back in October I had posted about some problems/questions I was having with ART on my Denon 3800 and I’m finally getting back to this. Since then, due to the problems I was having, I deleted and reinstalled Dirac 3.13.16 on my mac and remeasured 13 positions. Also updated the firmware on the Denon. This did improve things but there are still some significant issues.

I have some pretty extensive experience with complex audio systems and speaker design (it’s how I made my living for 30 years) but Dirac is new territory for me. I had to do all this manually before with big multi channel DSP engines so having a more automated system that is as capable as ART should be is great!

My system is 7.4.4 using some powered Mackie and Genelec monitors, a couple of Revel ceiling speakers, a couple of custom subs that go subsonic with plenty of power and a couple SVS subs I bought for support. The room is about 250 sq ft, no big modal problems or open passageways, some acoustic treatments and is dedicated to this system for music and movies.

I have 8 Groups: Center, one for each pair of speakers and one for each pair of subs.

I have been using Dirac BC successfully for nearly 2 years and every thing was working fine with good results, but ARTs capabilities should really make an improvement in my system because my room is good, but not perfect.

ART is a real improvement as long as I’m using surround modes but in stereo the overall tonal balance changes for the worse, not just the bass. (I do use some surround some of the time when listening to 2 channel music, then it’s fine) With BC I can switch back and forth between stereo and surround and the balance is quite similar. I’m not sure if this is related to the following issues.

The obvious problem I’m having is I have no sound coming from the second set of subs (group 8) and no other groups have a support check box for them either. They work fine in Bass Control so they are working. I expect my results would also be better in surround modes if the rear subs were supporting the front subs, which is why I bought them!

If I try and add them to the other sub group or my rear surround group Dirac says “There is too much support enabled. Disable support speakers until you are inside the device resource limit.” I can remove practically every support from every group and it still gives me this message, even though it shows I have only used 50 filters out of 96.

If I’m remembering correctly I had originally had all four subs in one group when I first tried ART, is this possible? My memory is that I had one sub group, pulled out two subs into a separate group, they weren’t working so I added them back, but I can’t remember if adding them back worked. (it was a while ago)

Is there some other “resource limit” I’m not aware of?

I haven’t tried the latest beta. I have been checking the forum, watched a couple of the recent videos with Joss from Dirac so have learned a few things since I was messing with a few months ago.

Hope one (or more!) of you have some thoughts, appreciate the help!
 
JeffH said:
I’m hoping some of you ART gurus can help me.

Back in October I had posted about some problems/questions I was having with ART on my Denon 3800 and I’m finally getting back to this. Since then, due to the problems I was having, I deleted and reinstalled Dirac 3.13.16 on my mac and remeasured 13 positions. Also updated the firmware on the Denon. This did improve things but there are still some significant issues.

I have some pretty extensive experience with complex audio systems and speaker design (it’s how I made my living for 30 years) but Dirac is new territory for me. I had to do all this manually before with big multi channel DSP engines so having a more automated system that is as capable as ART should be is great!

My system is 7.4.4 using some powered Mackie and Genelec monitors, a couple of Revel ceiling speakers, a couple of custom subs that go subsonic with plenty of power and a couple SVS subs I bought for support. The room is about 250 sq ft, no big modal problems or open passageways, some acoustic treatments and is dedicated to this system for music and movies.

I have 8 Groups: Center, one for each pair of speakers and one for each pair of subs.

I have been using Dirac BC successfully for nearly 2 years and every thing was working fine with good results, but ARTs capabilities should really make an improvement in my system because my room is good, but not perfect.

ART is a real improvement as long as I’m using surround modes but in stereo the overall tonal balance changes for the worse, not just the bass. (I do use some surround some of the time when listening to 2 channel music, then it’s fine) With BC I can switch back and forth between stereo and surround and the balance is quite similar. I’m not sure if this is related to the following issues.

The obvious problem I’m having is I have no sound coming from the second set of subs (group 8) and no other groups have a support check box for them either. They work fine in Bass Control so they are working. I expect my results would also be better in surround modes if the rear subs were supporting the front subs, which is why I bought them!

If I try and add them to the other sub group or my rear surround group Dirac says “There is too much support enabled. Disable support speakers until you are inside the device resource limit.” I can remove practically every support from every group and it still gives me this message, even though it shows I have only used 50 filters out of 96.

If I’m remembering correctly I had originally had all four subs in one group when I first tried ART, is this possible? My memory is that I had one sub group, pulled out two subs into a separate group, they weren’t working so I added them back, but I can’t remember if adding them back worked. (it was a while ago)

Is there some other “resource limit” I’m not aware of?

I haven’t tried the latest beta. I have been checking the forum, watched a couple of the recent videos with Joss from Dirac so have learned a few things since I was messing with a few months ago.

Hope one (or more!) of you have some thoughts, appreciate the help!
Click to expand...
Stereo sounding worse is not normal, and having no output from group 8 is also not normal.
It is also abnormal that those subs cannot be assigned as support speakers to any other group.
There are no functional limitations like that on the X3800H.
Even systems with a high channel count, such as 7.4.4, work without any issues.
 
I must be doing something wrong here
Connetced my atmos speakers and then dirac calibration

I can sweep every speaker when setting the volume
But i get pink noise when doing the sweep ?

Any suggestions ?

*edit*
Latest dirac version, not the beta
Will check on another pc just to

It is a C50 and i use speaker out for atmos on the receiver>
I also use speaker out for the surround, rest is Pre out
 
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