Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[Oddball]

Poor thing.
Are you able to manually enable the filters?
View attachment 498385

Oh yes, filters are just waiting to be checked. 94 is a bit less than I would want, but leaves only Atmos unsupported by other groups except subs. So pretty solid coverage overall for 9.4.4. system. Never tried to get the score to 96/96 from 94/96 though so might be missing the last part .

 

[JRowland]

Well this might be a valid point but practically all I want is to show me the number of available filters which my setup is doing. As dialing back support groups the number drops from 94 to 0 in increments that one would expect.

Practically, if you are not hitting the filter limit, you should not even care. I tried to dial back some support to 60-is filters but really did not change much in my setup. A bit different graphs but same old audible impact.

EDIT: You might be referring to recalculate the filters bug, which is known and as I understand under consideration. I reported it too, but Dirac closed my ticket due to inactivity.

I am saying your filter count is currently at 0 because you need to hit the calculate button. This can be seen by your support speakers showing as a dotted line in the image you linked. After you hit the calculate button they will be solid lines and the filter count (for filters used) will not show zero. Sorry for any confusion, are you saying you deselected all support to get to 0? It should not show those dotted lines if that is the case, at least for me when I remove a support speaker that line goes away when I show support?

 

[Oddball]

I am saying your filter count is currently at 0 because you need to hit the calculate button. This can be seen by your support speakers showing as a dotted line in the image you linked. After you hit the calculate button they will be solid lines and the filter count (for filters used) will not show zero. Sorry for any confusion.

Not with Mac right now, but filters should show zero even after calculate as I turned off any support for any groups or any speakers. So nothing there to support. If after calculate it shows any support, that would be a bug.

 

[JRowland]

Not with Mac right now, but filters should show zero even after calculate as I turned off any support for any groups or any speakers. So nothing there to support. If after calculate it shows any support, that would be a bug.

I was editing when you responded. After removing all support speakers those dotted lines should not be showing unless you haven't calculated again?

 

[mmares056]

After confirming this behavior, the filter count is not displayed when only a small number of speakers are used.
While this may be intended to be user-friendly, it is honestly not a very good UI design.
View attachment 498369
View attachment 498370

Agreed. The number of filter counts should be displayed regardless imo.

 

[Oddball]

I was editing when you responded. After removing all support speakers those dotted lines should not be showing unless you haven't calculated again?

Did not recalculate, just removed filters from 94/96 to 0/96 so that showed in the filter support count. Don't see the point though, at least for me, I can see exactly how many filters are being used, and I do like to use as many of them as I can. Lesser levels of support did not prove any better in my case.

 

[TimoJ]

recalculate the filters bug, which is known and as I understand under consideration. I reported it too, but Dirac closed my ticket due to inactivity.

They may have fixed it! I just tested the latest beta Dirac and once I saved a project, next time I opened it, there was no recalculation.
(btw. I have kept my Dirac ticket active, every time I get inactivity notification, I write some message there asking when they will fix it..)

 

[Oddball]

They may have fixed it! I just tested the latest beta Dirac and once I saved a project, next time I opened it, there was no recalculation.
(btw. I have kept my Dirac ticket active, every time I get inactivity notification, I write some message there asking when they will fix it..)

That would be great. Not an essential fix in any shape or form, but definitely a time saving one.

 

[kawauso]

Oh yes, filters are just waiting to be checked. 94 is a bit less than I would want, but leaves only Atmos unsupported by other groups except subs. So pretty solid coverage overall for 9.4.4. system. Never tried to get the score to 96/96 from 94/96 though so might be missing the last part .

In kawauso 7.4.6 setup, the default number of supports is actually 93/94.
Personally, I feel the default could be a bit lower.
In some cases, including examples like dlaloum’s that are closer to the default, the results felt a bit underwhelming to me.

 

[dlaloum]

Sorry for consecutive posts - this one is just curiosity. Does anyone use ART with active speakers and if so how does it work?

Why would active speakers be any different from passive speakers?

On the other hand if it is active speakers with onboard DSP's that do more than mere XO - ie: do onboard fletcher-munson or similar DEQ style adjustment on the fly... that would mess with ART , at a guess it would cause something similar to the effect of increasing distortion - which is to say decreased effectiveness at improving decay...

Hence I am running B&O Beovox Penta speakers - the passive Beovox version of the speaker (rather than the active Beolab version) , the active Beolab speakers from B&O have funky tailoring of the bass frequencies, which changes with levels - which I assume would mess badly with ART

 

[JRowland]

Finally figured out how to screen shot on one of these laptops Subs support at -20 and -24 for LFE -24 when solo, all other support is at -6. I think I’m settled in here for a bit, sounds lovely! I missed checking my left sub infra in the LFE channel, glad I took these pics and caught that. I don’t get much but I can feel the difference if it’s there so why not. This whole Dirac experience has been a breeze, great sound, easy to figure out UI, good info, forum support, active updates, well done.

 

[Frank207be]

DIY but active, using Hypex plate amps for filter, basic eq (no fir) and lvl for each driver
Only passive speakers i have is Atmos and they are not connected atm

That's my plan for 2026 too: finally build my in-wall LCR speakers with Hypex FA 253 or 503.

Is it a 100% positive experience or are there downsides too?

 

[smygolf]

That's my plan for 2026 too: finally build my in-wall LCR speakers with Hypex FA 253 or 503.

Is it a 100% positive experience or are there downsides too?

One complaint only, the software is not very intuitive and you only get 4500 fir taps globaly or 1500 per ch.
Not a problem for me but could be for others.

 

[alvigg]

What is a fir?

 

[smygolf]

What is a fir?

Finite impulse response - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the EQ section in REW you can create FIR based eq curve.
Then you import it to Rephase, adjust the settings to the amount of taps your product have. (4500 aint that many taps)
And now you hopefully have a better respons and with better phase.

I do not have much knowledge on how it works, but some one else can surely explaine it better.

 

[Oddball]

Why would active speakers be any different from passive speakers?

On the other hand if it is active speakers with onboard DSP's that do more than mere XO - ie: do onboard fletcher-munson or similar DEQ style adjustment on the fly... that would mess with ART , at a guess it would cause something similar to the effect of increasing distortion - which is to say decreased effectiveness at improving decay...

Hence I am running B&O Beovox Penta speakers - the passive Beovox version of the speaker (rather than the active Beolab version) , the active Beolab speakers from B&O have funky tailoring of the bass frequencies, which changes with levels - which I assume would mess badly with ART

It is different as you say in case where there is onboard DSP. A friend of mine is thinking about building HT with Kii Three BXT as bed speakers (9 or 11 of them) and asking how would that work with ART. I have no idea and seems he is set on Kii's as he has a pair of them and really happy with them.

Layering one EQ on top of another seems like intriguing concept, but not sure what would be the outcome. I recommended passive setup which would cost considerably less, but in this particular case money is not really a factor.

 

[Denon545]

@JRowland - Couple of questions if you don't mind...

Screenshots are showing what looks like no subwoofer support on your surround speakers. Just curious as to setting things up that way- any particular reasoning?

Also, did you get better results by separating all the speakers into individual groups vs having grouped pairs? I have kept mine in the grouped pairs (L/R together etc). I'd be interested to hear your results... I might need to go through and make a preset with them separate to test vs grouped.

 

[JRowland]

@JRowland - Couple of questions if you don't mind...

Screenshots are showing what looks like no subwoofer support on your surround speakers. Just curious as to setting things up that way- any particular reasoning?

Also, did you get better results by separating all the speakers into individual groups vs having grouped pairs? I have kept mine in the grouped pairs (L/R together etc). I'd be interested to hear your results... I might need to go through and make a preset with them separate to test vs grouped.

Preset 16 has left sub supporting left surround and right on right. I spent the last 2 nights working from 7 to 11 as Robert Plant sang swapping back and forth with all kinds of Atmos playlists I’ve compiled and couldn’t tell much difference. I figure no point in forcing the sub to handle something I can’t hear or feel. If I ever get into movies I’ll move my 10 inch sub back there and buy another plus a 12” for the front (to get to 120Hz without help which I might do just because). Coolest thing about ART to me is it allows you to make a speaker as an idiot like me with no real desire to be a measurement expert. Each of the 4 sub outs on the Denon is independent meaning not mono bass. I prefer not having the bass mono by force, a lot. As to the groups when I read or saw some Dirac folk saying groups are only there to make it easier for folks with big speaker counts I knew I’d never try it, so I have not. I like the idea of 5 independent full range speakers and ART makes that happen pretty damn good to my ears. Sit down with the first 2 Billie Eilish albums (Atmos) with everything separate vs. not, the louder the funner but it’s not necessary. It does need to be loud enough to feel the vibrations, I’ll be anxious to hear your feedback.

 

[Oddball]

Preset 16 has left sub supporting left surround and right on right. I spent the last 2 nights working from 7 to 11 as Robert Plant sang swapping back and forth with all kinds of Atmos playlists I’ve compiled and couldn’t tell much difference. I figure no point in forcing the sub to handle something I can’t hear or feel. If I ever get into movies I’ll move my 10 inch sub back there and buy another plus a 12” for the front (to get to 120Hz without help which I might do just because). Coolest thing about ART to me is it allows you to make a speaker as an idiot like me with no real desire to be a measurement expert. Each of the 4 sub outs on the Denon is independent meaning not mono bass. I prefer not having the bass mono by force, a lot. As to the groups when I read or saw some Dirac folk saying groups are only there to make it easier for folks with big speaker counts I knew I’d never try it, so I have not. I like the idea of 5 independent full range speakers and ART makes that happen pretty damn good to my ears. Sit down with the first 2 Billie Eilish albums (Atmos) with everything separate vs. not, the louder the funner but it’s not necessary. It does need to be loud enough to feel the vibrations, I’ll be anxious to hear your feedback.

A bit cryptic.

As to mono bass, there is really no such thing with ART due to the concept. Neither there is stereo bass. Bass in ART is a mix of LFE (if present) and main channel bass. How that plays along is different in every system as ART will seek to optimize the resources you have. ART seems to keep a lots of directional bass clues, at least in my system, so is well aware of that.

My speakers do go to 50hz in bed channel and about 60hz for Atmos. This provides utmost localization for soundtracks like Masters of the Air that have those clues to begin with - a true 3D envelope.

Music? Well that is a different story altogether. If listening to 2.0, ART will do justice and not distort. Every Atmos mix for music is a challenge. ART will do it right but it will just be what came in. Some of Atmos mixes don't make sense so ART will not make them any better.

 

[JRowland]

A bit cryptic.

As to mono bass, there is really no such thing with ART due to the concept. Neither there is stereo bass. Bass in ART is a mix of LFE (if present) and main channel bass. How that plays along is different in every system as ART will seek to optimize the resources you have. ART seems to keep a lots of directional bass clues, at least in my system, so is well aware of that.

My speakers do go to 50hz in bed channel and about 60hz for Atmos. This provides utmost localization for soundtracks like Masters of the Air that have those clues to begin with - a true 3D envelope.

Music? Well that is a different story altogether. If listening to 2.0, ART will do justice and not distort. Every Atmos mix for music is a challenge. ART will do it right but it will just be what came in. Some of Atmos mixes don't make sense so ART will not make them any better.

Yep, having control to make a subwoofer a slave to the left main playing only left main and one to the right in 2 channel without being an engineer is amazing as well. I’m 50/50 now on multichannel vs. stereo and thankful Apple Music keeps feeding me things to try. Always about finding the good source, Atmos included. That’s been my fun since 2nd grade though, used to take longer and a bunch more money to build a library.