It's a sealed speaker sitting in front of a window and has the least bass output of the 5 for sure, makes sense. Thank you for the target curves!
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Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac
- Thread starter Flak
- Start date
It's a sealed speaker sitting in front of a window and has the least bass output of the 5 for sure, makes sense. Thank you for the target curves!
Your memories with your brother are truly beautiful.
Music has a way of preserving those moments forever, doesn’t it?
If you’re considering JBL, how about the 4329P?
I think you might really enjoy them.
Yes, music is wonderful for triggering memories for me. The speakers are lovely but let's get to the elephant in the room. WOW, that is soooooo cool. He or she? Are they as smart as I perceive them to be? Do you have a water feature in your home? I probably have a lot more questions about the otter
I don’t keep an otter at home, but I recently visited an otter zoo in Ikebukuro and got to interact with them.Yes, music is wonderful for triggering memories for me. The speakers are lovely but let's get to the elephant in the room. WOW, that is soooooo cool. He or she? Are they as smart as I perceive them to be? Do you have a water feature in your home? I probably have a lot more questions about the otter
One of the otters, a girl named Sachiko who is about ⚀ years old, kept coming to me and even crawled under my skirt.
I really want to go see Sachiko again someday.
That denim jacket (harness) is so cute! Sachiko looks very engaging, I can see why you can't wait to visit again!
Setting it up this week / weekend
I use an X4800 for surround in movies (5.2) and music in stereo. It works brilliantly on both scenarios. Bass has more punch/impact and is definitely tighter. I've commented elsewhere that I listen to a lot of jazz and walking double bass lines are much cleaner.
I made a lightweight list of people who seem to be using or enjoying ART, based on kawauso’s casual observations.
If you’d like anyone added or removed, feel free to let me know.
docs.google.com
If you’d like anyone added or removed, feel free to let me know.
ART Lovers Club
OK, so my preliminary report on ART, X4800h replacing Integra DRX3.4 with DL (full range)
Initial cursory listening, with +4 / -3 target curve... is it any different?
Set up 2 presets :
Finding the profiles a bit bass heavy (I had used the tone control on the DRX to reduce the bass... really should have just adjusted the target curve!).
New set of 2 presets - targets set using "handles"/shelves:
Listened to a range of music... blues, jazz, classical, rock
There is a difference, but it is subtle, (a sign that my system & room are well sorted?) - but the ART preset seems clearer, not much in it.
Other half came in and sat down, then without prompting, she said, it sounds "lighter", less tiring, what have you done?
I then did a bit of switching back and forth with various tracks and both of us on the couch... yes ART is definitely a step up.
If I was in a smaller room with more acoustic issues, it might have a greater impact, but even so it has a noticeable impact.
Is it worth the AU$4000 spend (AU$3000 for the Denon X4800, AU$1000 for Dirac ART)... I'm not sure... but it did definitely progress the system positively.
Some notes about my room - it is very large - open living space with lounge/dining/kitchen and open hallway to rest of home - ceiling/roof is also vaulted/cathedral ceiling - so a substantial volume, and bass nodes/nulls are likely to be in the infrasonic range due to the space size - so the DL setup was already sounding pretty damn good.
Bass - I have mentioned before that I am not a bass head - my search is more for clarity, detail, texture.... which I am getting.
After further messing about I further lowered the bass end of the spectrum, and am now running with a "handles" based target at 0db, and treble at -3db
Fronts (24Hz) are supporting at -12db - supporting center, surrounds, front heights, sub -18
Center (50Hz) is not supporting anything
Surrounds (35Hz) - supporting Fronts -12, Surrounds -18, surround heights -18, Sub -18
Heights are not supporting anything (they are supported by fronts for FH, surround for SH, and all by Sub -18)
Sub - Supports all at -18, supported by Fronts -12 and Surrounds -18
Happy with the result...
Have yet to try movies - which may or may not need their own seperate preset with more of a bass boost - we will see...
Summary - a big subjective "Tick" for ART - subjective improvements in clarity (midrange and bass), music appears more "relaxed" (an outcome or removing the decay from the room?), imaging improve, but all the effects are subtle - nothing overt or obvious - no "wow" moment of enlightenment.
I think those experiencing the "wow" effects are most likely in smaller rooms with more issues.
I did not deploy the 2nd sub... don't feel the need.
Initial cursory listening, with +4 / -3 target curve... is it any different?
Set up 2 presets :
- using the same DL parameters as I previously used with the DRX3.4 - the sound is familiar - it sounds just the way it has for the last couple of years - all good. (Good sign that the X4800 isn't doing anything wrong!) - target curve is following native in room response of my Gallo's
- set up with ART - using +4/-3 target curve
Finding the profiles a bit bass heavy (I had used the tone control on the DRX to reduce the bass... really should have just adjusted the target curve!).
New set of 2 presets - targets set using "handles"/shelves:
- ART preset with +2 / -3 profile
- DL preset with +2 / -3 profile
Listened to a range of music... blues, jazz, classical, rock
There is a difference, but it is subtle, (a sign that my system & room are well sorted?) - but the ART preset seems clearer, not much in it.
Other half came in and sat down, then without prompting, she said, it sounds "lighter", less tiring, what have you done?
I then did a bit of switching back and forth with various tracks and both of us on the couch... yes ART is definitely a step up.
If I was in a smaller room with more acoustic issues, it might have a greater impact, but even so it has a noticeable impact.
Is it worth the AU$4000 spend (AU$3000 for the Denon X4800, AU$1000 for Dirac ART)... I'm not sure... but it did definitely progress the system positively.
Some notes about my room - it is very large - open living space with lounge/dining/kitchen and open hallway to rest of home - ceiling/roof is also vaulted/cathedral ceiling - so a substantial volume, and bass nodes/nulls are likely to be in the infrasonic range due to the space size - so the DL setup was already sounding pretty damn good.
Bass - I have mentioned before that I am not a bass head - my search is more for clarity, detail, texture.... which I am getting.
After further messing about I further lowered the bass end of the spectrum, and am now running with a "handles" based target at 0db, and treble at -3db
Fronts (24Hz) are supporting at -12db - supporting center, surrounds, front heights, sub -18
Center (50Hz) is not supporting anything
Surrounds (35Hz) - supporting Fronts -12, Surrounds -18, surround heights -18, Sub -18
Heights are not supporting anything (they are supported by fronts for FH, surround for SH, and all by Sub -18)
Sub - Supports all at -18, supported by Fronts -12 and Surrounds -18
Happy with the result...
Have yet to try movies - which may or may not need their own seperate preset with more of a bass boost - we will see...
Summary - a big subjective "Tick" for ART - subjective improvements in clarity (midrange and bass), music appears more "relaxed" (an outcome or removing the decay from the room?), imaging improve, but all the effects are subtle - nothing overt or obvious - no "wow" moment of enlightenment.
I think those experiencing the "wow" effects are most likely in smaller rooms with more issues.
I did not deploy the 2nd sub... don't feel the need.
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You can add me to the list. I have fallen in love with ART. Every time I listen to music I am amazed how it fixed the most annoying issue in my room. I would say it has transformed my soundsystem.I made a lightweight list of people who seem to be using or enjoying ART, based on kawauso’s casual observations.
If you’d like anyone added or removed, feel free to let me know.
ART Lovers Club
dlaloum, you said you’d test ART over the weekend, but that was quick.lol
You say the difference is subtle, yet you’re adjusting the bass shelf quite a bit. I get why, though. With the dips gone, the low end gains density, so you no longer need to “fake” it with a tilted target curve.
In my experience, the change from Dirac RC to ART is especially noticeable when using only one subwoofer. Try walking around your room while switching between RC and ART. The consistency of the bass with ART will probably surprise you.
Added! Everyone else on the list was added based on my own observations, so you’re actually the first person to join voluntarily haha.
I’ve seen your interesting posts in the other ART thread as well, so if you’d like, it would be great to hear more about your experiences here too.
Looks great! It may already be fixed, but it seems the subwoofer support for your surround channels is turned off, so enabling it should make things even better!
i think it was enabled but i reduced it because at high volume they could not pick up with the front in the low bass, as the front has double 15 and the surround 1 8 inch woofer
Well, looks like you did get some improvement but not what you expected at that price.
Couple of comments - not entirely backed by science,, so might be wrong though.
As to large space and multi-purpose room, that is also what I have. It is about 6000-7000 cft, yours could be substantially larger as house and have cathedral ceilings. If not the size, than cathedral ceilings could be the reason why difference is not so noticable. I remember moving from a large flat into a 2 story house (with cathedral ceilings, relatively open floor plan on 1-st floor, big staircase and 2nd floor hallway) way back and obviously acoustics was completely different. Not sure if ART can deal with that. Reverbs in such space are very long and might be too confusing for ART to get these multiple bounces.
With low bass levels effectiveness of ART could also practically be reduced. Seems like most ART-ists are boosting the bass, with some resident bass heads (me including) having the presets up to +12dB. High boost increases the bass levels but still provides ART clarity. With lower bass levels you generally get lower decay times even without ART. That is just how subs and speakers work. This is also connected with SPL levels. I am usually listening at -10dB to reference so get into high decay times for my subs and speakers as run them at 105dB and 95dB respectively for the peaks. If listening to lower volumes, your decay should be lower even without ART.
I think you did choose the max support matrix in your system which is intuitive and reasonable. Perhaps you can try with less is more approach and see if that gets you more clarity you are looking for. In case you are up for it, I would drop Atmos support and let the pairs support themselves, of course with subs supporting them. I do it that way as don't have enough filters and that works well. Atmos speakers are sometimes called to extreme duty, but most often they chill with ambient sound. Also, you did not note the range of support for your speakers. I would not go below 50hz for beds even if they extend lower. I tried and in my system did not make difference. YMMV as have 4 subs, but just to stay on the safe side, better to pull that 2nd sub out of the storage.
And welcome to ART-ist club. The more the merrier as we can learn about different rooms/setups/listening habits and its effects on ART.
Well, this was my first try.... the Siren call could not be resisted!
Keep in mind that I was previously on a +4 / -1 (roughly) target curve, BUT I was also using the tone control to turn down the bass -8... not sure whether that matches to db in any way though.
So really I should have reduced the bass shelf quite a bit ages ago! (on Dirac Live RC)
Also I have been using 4 full range speakers with the AVR set to double bass - so the bass management was distributing the LFE to the full range speakers as well as bass + LFE to the sub so I was effectively using 5 subs in differing locations, which would have evened up the room in any case - I suspect this is another reason why there is less impact than I was expecting.
I really do recommend full range speakers for people - if you have the room for them, or if you find appropriately compact ones (the way I have!)
Large subwoofers really are the best!
I’m glad to hear that your ART setup on the X3800H went well.
I saw your posts about the Blade in another thread — are you using them in this setup?
If you don’t mind, I’d love to see a photo.
No "Atmos speakers" here - the height speakers are Gallo Nucleus Micro's little balls... mounted high up. they need bass support badly! reflecting Atmos speakers won't work with the steeply angled cathedral ceiling...
I consciously toned down quite a few support settings to 12 from the default of 18 to maximise localisation, but I need to do a lot of experimentation to see what ends up working best (and suiting my tastes best).
I need to do some room reorg to open up a space for the 2nd sub - and given my current results, I am not convinced that I have all that much to gain...
Still, indubitably, I will need to try it out! (it has been waiting for an appropriate bass management system for some years!)
With sub and 2 mains reaching down to 24Hz, and the surrounds reaching down to 35Hz - do I really need another sub?! (keeping in mind that I tune the bass for flat as my preference, not boosted)
I hear you - was using the same thing, plus actual LFE distribution to beds. As you probably remember, my surrounds are all Gallo 3.1 and LCR a bit larger and dig deeper. But that Audy setup was a far cry from what I get now with ART. Phase was not well aligned as there was only so much one could do and decay was also not great despite primitive 2x2 sub array.
But in my space things don't bounce that much in the low end and if they do, it seems that ART is able to make some sense out of them. I still get into 400ms decay at some points, but that actually sounds a bit "wet" so don't complain. Used to be much worse.
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