Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[kawauso]

Do I need to also try out MultEQ-X...?

MultEQ-X is currently being used at my husband's parents' house with two X4500H units.
Since I’m not a big fan of Dynamic EQ, I mainly use it to create a house curve, especially by adjusting the low-frequency shelf.
You can assign different house curves to the Flat and Reference presets.

It's possible to make the frequency response roughly the same as with Dirac RC, but it still can’t match Dirac’s clarity.
This is probably because Dirac aligns the phase between the low-frequency channels.

Still, MultEQ-X produces much better bass than kawauso’s manual EQ.
Frequency response is the most important parameter.

 

[dlaloum]

MultEQ-X is currently being used at my husband's parents' house with two X4500H units.
Since I’m not a big fan of Dynamic EQ, I mainly use it to create a house curve, especially by adjusting the low-frequency shelf.
You can assign different house curves to the Flat and Reference presets.

It's possible to make the frequency response roughly the same as with Dirac RC, but it still can’t match Dirac’s clarity.
This is probably because Dirac aligns the phase between the low-frequency channels.

Still, MultEQ-X produces much better bass than kawauso’s manual EQ.
Frequency response is the most important parameter.

When I first tried Dirac - that was my observation too (switching from Audyssey) - improved clarity.

The question that I have unresolved, is whether turning off the MRC was the principal cause (my old Integra DTR70.4 had no option to turn off MRC) - or whether it is really a Dirac superiority vs Audy.

 

[kawauso]

When I first tried Dirac - that was my observation too (switching from Audyssey) - improved clarity.

The question that I have unresolved, is whether turning off the MRC was the principal cause (my old Integra DTR70.4 had no option to turn off MRC) - or whether it is really a Dirac superiority vs Audy.

Would you like to try MultEQ-X?
If you compare it with a Dirac RC curve that has a very similar frequency response, the differences may become clearer.
It can be a bit difficult to match the curves closely when using the Audyssey smartphone app.

 

[DTSman]

...

For context, my setup is a 9.4.4 configuration. My front wide speakers are JBL 8320, the same model as all the surround and Atmos speakers in my setup. The four subwoofers are identical JBL 3635 units.

I should also note that this issue occurs with both ART profiles I created, so it’s unlikely that I accidentally caused abnormal support of the front wides. However, when I stay in native decoding mode without upmixing, I have no saturation issues. The sound is clean, just like with my Bass Control calibration. The difference is that with the Bass Control slot, I can use upmixers without any distortion or crackling.

Even for Atmos native soundtrack front wide and front height speakers are overloaded of sounds therefore those speakers are not set as support speakers. Result is less natural than BC.

So not an efficient upgrade for me compare to BassControl.

PS: I sent mail to both helpdesk of Denon and Dirac team. Just waiting for an answer.

For information,

This issue with Front Wide usage, have been solved with the last Denon firmware update (last week). Now those channels works identical between BassControl and ART with Atmos soundtrack or upmix (Neural X / DSU)

 

[kawauso]

For information,

This issue with Front Wide usage, have been solved with the last Denon firmware update (last week). Now those channels works identical between BassControl and ART with Atmos soundtrack or upmix (Neural X / DSU)

It seems Denon has finally solved the Floyd-wide issue.
In your earlier posts, you sounded disappointed with the ART upgrade.
Has your opinion changed now?

 

[DTSman]

It seems Denon has finally solved the Floyd-wide issue.
In your earlier posts, you sounded disappointed with the ART upgrade.
Has your opinion changed now?

In my setup, the improvement with ART is especially noticeable on stereo and multichannel music. For example, I watched last week the Zimmer – Diamond in the Desert concert. The bass has more impact with ART, which enhances the dynamics.
On the other hand, with a movie the improvement is more subtle, and it seemed to me that the infrasonic range is slightly reduced. I need to continue testing this specific point.

 

[dlaloum]

Would you like to try MultEQ-X?
If you compare it with a Dirac RC curve that has a very similar frequency response, the differences may become clearer.
It can be a bit difficult to match the curves closely when using the Audyssey smartphone app.

I believe there was a utility that allowed an upload of a custom curve via the Smartphone app... may try to find that!

 

[dlaloum]

In my setup, the improvement with ART is especially noticeable on stereo and multichannel music. For example, I watched last week the Zimmer – Diamond in the Desert concert. The bass has more impact with ART, which enhances the dynamics.
On the other hand, with a movie the improvement is more subtle, and it seemed to me that the infrasonic range is slightly reduced. I need to continue testing this specific point.

With movies I found the dialogue was much more intelligible... with music, the imaging was better

 

[kawauso]

In my setup, the improvement with ART is especially noticeable on stereo and multichannel music. For example, I watched last week the Zimmer – Diamond in the Desert concert. The bass has more impact with ART, which enhances the dynamics.
On the other hand, with a movie the improvement is more subtle, and it seemed to me that the infrasonic range is slightly reduced. I need to continue testing this specific point.

Try applying a +12 dB boost to the LFE channel for movies.

With movies I found the dialogue was much more intelligible... with music, the imaging was better

Did you finally try ART, dlaloum?

 

[TimoJ]

For stereo music I find that full-range Dirac partially ruins stereo imaging, makes the center image (the singer) too pinpoint and tinny sounding, and removes the natural sense of three-dimensional spaciousness.

For the main L/R speakers, I have limited the Dirac correction range to 1 kHz. I correct system's other speakers full-range using a target curve that follows the measured response of the main L/R speakers. I am not using upmixers for stereo signals.

ART is of course enabled 20-150Hz, with full support from all speakers and subs (7.3.6).

Above is for my main system. After many calibrations and mic position patterns, it's still the same and better with limited Dirac range.
My secondary system works better with full range Dirac correction. But its overall sound and imaging is much worse than my main systems.

 

[Mort]

Why full range?

 

[TimoJ]

Why full range?

Where? If you are asking about the system's other speakers, it's because their tonality is different and needs correction for multichannel material.

 

[Mort]

It's generally not recommended to have Dirac go full range. Might be introducing more artifacts than it's fixing. Are your surround monitors that far off?

 

[TimoJ]

Are your surround monitors that far off?

Yes they are, different manufacturers/sound for sides and backs and also for front heights and mid tops/back heights. It would be a different situation if, for example, I had Kef Q type speakers all around.

 

[JRowland]

You seem to be enjoying ART.
Your cat looks completely relaxed, too.
I also really love KEF speakers.

SHOW US your listening room )

Ref. my post here #95... This is one of the eight (8) HiRes (6720x4480 pixel) photos of my disk shelves; each of the similar eight (8) shelves contains about 450 CDs (SACDs DVDs), i.e. total about 3,600 physical disks. I used my Canon EOS 5D Mark IV DSLR camera + EF24-105mm F4L IS II USM lens...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I am, he's a good boy and was upside down with his legs splayed waaay out until I reached for my phone to take a pic You have a very very nice Kef room it sounds like, I'd imagine your JBL set up is amazing as well I am just unfamiliar with their product line. IIRC you had made a guide for ART, could you be so kind as to link that for me please and thank you? I have appreciated your input here and elsewhere so I would like to start with yours.

 

[JRowland]

It seems Denon has finally solved the Floyd-wide issue.

If you have not and can you might try a 60 degree wide. I tried as a side surround and liked what I heard. My wife I feel is putting up with a lot during this audio journey I am having but she put her foot down with the 60 degree wides when I set it up I couldn't blame her, one was very much in the way of her library access.

 

[kawauso]

If you have not and can you might try a 60 degree wide. I tried as a side surround and liked what I heard. My wife I feel is putting up with a lot during this audio journey I am having but she put her foot down with the 60 degree wides when I set it up I couldn't blame her, one was very much in the way of her library access.

Here is my Dirac ART manual.

『How to Set Up Dirac ART on Denon & Marantz』

Table of Contents Preparation Tuning Subwoofer Support Setup (Full-Range & LFE)…

ameblo.jp

When we move to a larger room, I definitely want to try front wides.
I’m thinking of placing JBL M2 as the front wides and switching between them and my main K2 S9900 depending on my mood.

My KEF system works very well with a 5.4.6 Atmos layout and a 5.4.5.1 Auro layout.

It seems front wides can get a bit in the way, haha.
My surround speakers and subwoofers also block the walkway a little, so they’re a bit in the way too, lol.

 

[JRowland]

Here is my Dirac ART manual.

『How to Set Up Dirac ART on Denon & Marantz』

Table of Contents Preparation Tuning Subwoofer Support Setup (Full-Range & LFE)…

ameblo.jp

When we move to a larger room, I definitely want to try front wides.
I’m thinking of placing JBL M2 as the front wides and switching between them and my main K2 S9900 depending on my mood.

My KEF system works very well with a 5.4.6 Atmos layout and a 5.4.5.1 Auro layout.

It seems front wides can get a bit in the way, haha.
My surround speakers and subwoofers also block the walkway a little, so they’re a bit in the way too, lol.
View attachment 496123

Thank you! I love the otters. When I was born my oldest brother was 18 years old, he was in college but we shared a bedroom. He loved music and it was always playing when it was my bedtime. I inherited his record collection when he passed, I was 20 so 33 years ago but when I load up one of his records it feels like yesterday we were hanging out listening to Dr. Demento. He loved JBL speakers, and Steely Dan and Simply Red

 

[JRowland]

@kawauso I have a question if I may? When you speak of target curves, I noticed while fumbling around that my center channel by default has no boost added and my other channels have a (I think) +3db boost on the bottom, it's a default setting. When you say all the groups should have the same curve are you suggesting I copy the default from my L/R to the center? Do you have any inkling why Dirac leaves the center flat but applies a boost to the other speakers by default?

 

[kawauso]

@kawauso I have a question if I may? When you speak of target curves, I noticed while fumbling around that my center channel by default has no boost added and my other channels have a (I think) +3db boost on the bottom, it's a default setting. When you say all the groups should have the same curve are you suggesting I copy the default from my L/R to the center? Do you have any inkling why Dirac leaves the center flat but applies a boost to the other speakers by default?

Dirac’s default low-frequency tilt is determined by the speaker’s natural bass output and its placement.
If the speaker produces a lot of bass, the tilt becomes steeper; if it produces less, the tilt becomes more gentle.
It’s fine for each channel to have a different tilt, but I keep them unified because adjusting each one individually is a hassle.
I’ve saved multiple target curves with low-frequency shelves from 0 to +12, and I apply them to all groups.
As the manual also recommends, I suggest creating a special movie preset where only the LFE channel is boosted significantly.

I’m attaching my target-curve files—feel free to use them if you’d like.