Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[kawauso]

You should try the built-in 5-band graphic equalizer, too. They say its bedroom performance is second to none.

Dirac gives me great results in such a short time.
As for the A1 Evo, getting a better outcome than the Audyssey smartphone app is probably about as likely as rolling a six on a D6 die.

Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

So when is this going to be supported on a processor that costs less than $10,000? :) One that I can insert into my processor loop, I hope!

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[masterhw]

I’m sorry you did not have good results with A1 Evo. myself and plenty of others have. let’s stay civil please.

 

[kawauso]

I’m sorry you did not have good results with A1 Evo. myself and plenty of others have. let’s stay civil please.

Please provide the mdat files for both the uncorrected MLP position and the one corrected with A1 Evo.

 

[OCA]

Dirac gives me great results in such a short time.
As for the A1 Evo, getting a better outcome than the Audyssey smartphone app is probably about as likely as rolling a six on a D6 die.

Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

So when is this going to be supported on a processor that costs less than $10,000? :) One that I can insert into my processor loop, I hope!

www.audiosciencereview.com

I remember you admitting to adding PEQ in Roon on top of Dirac. I don't know anyone who needs to do that after Evo.

I’m sorry you did not have good results with A1 Evo. myself and plenty of others have. let’s stay civil please.

No worries I was enjoying it

 

[OCA]

Please provide the mdat files for both the uncorrected MLP position and the one corrected with A1 Evo.

Join the fb group maybe and you can get all 2,800 of them:

 

[kawauso]

I remember you admitting to adding PEQ in Roon on top of Dirac. I don't know anyone who needs to do that after Evo.



No worries I was enjoying it

This PEQ is not room correction; it is speaker correction.
There are many speakers whose Preference Score improves significantly when EQ is applied.

Join the fb group maybe and you can get all 2,800 of them:

View attachment 495974

It's troublesome. A1 Evo is free, but my time is limited.

 

[OCA]

The Dayton UM12-22 passive subwoofer works great with Dirac.

you need to put in an enclosed box, not in the bedroom drawer.

This PEQ is not room correction; it is speaker correction.

is the room aware of that?

 

[agentcooper]

But the concept of the support groups wouldn't apply, would it? If only two speakers.

I think in a 2.0 setup the L and R could be separate groups and they'd support each other. Not sure how it would sound but I'm curious!

 

[TimoJ]

I think in a 2.0 setup the L and R could be separate groups and they'd support each other. Not sure how it would sound but I'm curious!

They can be in the same group and they still support each other.

 

[Oddball]

Not sure why argument around OCA’s work, especially in ART thread. Works for some not for the others like most room correction software. So nothing really new under the sun.

I have not tried so don’t have a view one way or the other but heated discussion and bitterness rarely takes us anywhere. I respect OCA for his work praised by many and also Kawauso that has been really helpful and shared many of her graphs and ART tips.

 

[tsammyc]

I'd just focus on ART for multichannel.
My two rooms were built with two completely different end results in mind, so no point trying to compare.

E.g. the HT fronts are power-hungry but lower quality Polk Audio RTi9, whereas the stereo setup are very nuanced KEF R3.
HT is driven by Class D amps, the stereo by a Class AB amp.
The HT pre is Denon, the stereo pre is a Tube one.

It is really apples and oranges at this point.

One other observation - I have 13 speakers (including 2 subs) in 7 groups (ART).

How would the whole "support" idea even work if I were to listen to stereo music on the Denon?
I tried all the pseudo stereo formats, didn't really like them.
Multi-channel stereo, Auro 3D etc.

I kinda thought ART with all the support groups makes no sense for stereo (two speakers), or am I missing something?

Two channel music sounds much cleaner and bass tighter with ART. It’s easy to test using the Option button to A/B. I would think it’s a combination of Dirac, DLBC and ART. Not just the multiple speaker cancellations in ART

Since you listen to Tidal in your PC room, and you are not applying any form of room correction, you can test basic effectiveness of room correction by buying a WIIM mini streamer for $80. WIIM has a pretty effective room correction called RoomFit. It will give you a taste of the effectiveness of room correction on two channel music. I find it tightens up my bedroom music system, which is just an Ayima class D amp and some Wharfedale bookshelves. Do also get a calibrated USB mike for the WIIM app. You can use the same mike to objectively measure your rooms using REW.

After installing ART, give Auro 3D another spin. Even with modest Atmos speakers, Auro 3D gives that 3D bubble of music and large soundstage, while ART makes the music clearer and tightens up the bass. There are a few albums where I prefer Auro 3D off, but there isn’t anything that I would turn ART off for. Before ART, with some vocals music, I would put the X3800H into pure direct mode, to maximize voice clarity. Not anymore.

 

[dlaloum]

It’s true that I find my X3800H sounding a little better when I attach a $80 SMSL DAC to the CD input driven by an a WIIM mini. The X3800H has a good sounding amp section.

There is a huge difference in clarity of two channel music and tightness of bass between having ART on and off. Your PC driving separates cannot achieve this unless you have a perfect room.

IMHO if you have resonances in your room, you will get a better overall two channel music experience with the X3800H and ART than any separates you buy

The X3800 does show signs in the measurements of a bit of Jitter... the X4800 has that aspect under control... It may be that this is the thing you are hearing, rather than SINAD... (or THD and Noise)

 

[dlaloum]

I'd just focus on ART for multichannel.
My two rooms were built with two completely different end results in mind, so no point trying to compare.

E.g. the HT fronts are power-hungry but lower quality Polk Audio RTi9, whereas the stereo setup are very nuanced KEF R3.
HT is driven by Class D amps, the stereo by a Class AB amp.
The HT pre is Denon, the stereo pre is a Tube one.

It is really apples and oranges at this point.

One other observation - I have 13 speakers (including 2 subs) in 7 groups (ART).

How would the whole "support" idea even work if I were to listen to stereo music on the Denon?
I tried all the pseudo stereo formats, didn't really like them.
Multi-channel stereo, Auro 3D etc.

I kinda thought ART with all the support groups makes no sense for stereo (two speakers), or am I missing something?

Yes you are (missing something) - with support the other speakers will be used to "support" the main stereo pair... in the bass the ART bass management will effectively use all bass capable speakers to provide a distributed and integrated virtual "Sub"

There are plenty of reports of substantive benefits to pure stereo (even in 2.0 true stereo setups)...

But do keep in mind that there is a small minority of people who have tried ART and either preferred DLBC, or found that ART brought no perceptible improvement to their setup... those that I have noticed in this category, usually have heavily treated, dedicated listening spaces, with bass traps, and other acoustic solutions deployed.
For those who's listening area is a shared living zone, with all the compromises inherent therein, the gains from ART appear to be universal.

 

[dlaloum]

ART is highly effective even in a stereo setup, and it can significantly improve both the frequency response and decay with just two speakers.
I recommend bringing the X3800H into the room where your R3s are placed and trying it there.
If you like the natural tone of your speakers, limiting Dirac’s correction range to around 300 Hz is a good approach.
With the R3, you can leave a bit of the room’s natural character while still getting a smooth, gently downward-sloping response.

『Dirac ART Field Report: JBL Room in 2.0 Mode』

Table of Contents Overview Effect in 2.0 Configuration Spectrum Changes Subwoof…

ameblo.jp

Or alternatively you can use the measured "In Room" frequency response of the speakers, as the "Target Curve"

The advantage being that Dirac will still do impulse and phase (ie: time based) adjustments - while avoiding frequency amplitude adjustments...

The primary benefit I found from using Dirac Live (not ART... yet) was in the improved midrange clarity... and I would not want to sacrifice that - to me the midrange is king.

 

[dlaloum]

But the concept of the support groups wouldn't apply, would it? If only two speakers.

By using "support groups" you can better tailor the frequency limitations of groups of speakers, which can be of value... (you can also potentially influence localisation by controlling which location groups support which speakers - particularly with higher levels of support... not so much if using support in the single db figures)

 

[dlaloum]

The Dayton UM12-22 passive subwoofer works great with Dirac.
You say to enjoy the sound of the walls, but for that, the result feels almost too clean (lol).
By the way, I can’t enjoy music with A1 Evo, but with MultEQ-X it’s perfectly enjoyable.
View attachment 495963
View attachment 495964

Do I need to also try out MultEQ-X...?

 

[tsammyc]

The X3800 does show signs in the measurements of a bit of Jitter... the X4800 has that aspect under control... It may be that this is the thing you are hearing, rather than SINAD... (or THD and Noise)

I'd like to think not every X3800H is alike in terms of measurements and Amir only measured one sample. The receiver driven by my external DAC is probably to my taste. I have had a variety of DACs over the past decade. Various ESS, AKM, TI, Cirrus Logic etc. I've even heard a $40K DAC. They all sound slightly different to me and my current preference are the AKM DACs for the music I listen to. Consequently when I swapped my Yamaha receiver to the X3800H a few years ago, I just attached the previous DAC. Music in pure direct mode on both sounded better on the X3800H probably because it had a better amplifier than the Yamaha.

There are also other variables. I'm using a WIIM mini driving my Topping DAC over a bit perfect optical connection, listening mainly to Tidal. I've listened to Tidal tracks through the X3800H via Airplay and HEOS and prefer the WIIM/Topping. Could be jitter/SINAD, Airplay, HEOS etc. Other factors are the WIIM app being better than HEOS and the ability to use the Tidal Connect being more reliable on the WIIM.

 

[ban25]

Do I need to also try out MultEQ-X...?

It's $200 so not really worth it if you already have the Dirac licenses. The only thing it really gives you over the $20 mobile app is the ability to expand the correction headroom (and of course a Windows UX). The license is bound to your Microsoft account, so it's not easy to transfer unless you make a burner email / MS account.

 

[JRowland]

Yes you are (missing something) - with support the other speakers will be used to "support" the main stereo pair... in the bass the ART bass management will effectively use all bass capable speakers to provide a distributed and integrated virtual "Sub"

There are plenty of reports of substantive benefits to pure stereo (even in 2.0 true stereo setups)...

But do keep in mind that there is a small minority of people who have tried ART and either preferred DLBC, or found that ART brought no perceptible improvement to their setup... those that I have noticed in this category, usually have heavily treated, dedicated listening spaces, with bass traps, and other acoustic solutions deployed.
For those who's listening area is a shared living zone, with all the compromises inherent therein, the gains from ART appear to be universal.

I just got ART installed on my 4800 last night. I’ve read your thoughts on speaker sizing so I’ll add I have Kef R7m fronts, R6m, R5m surrounds (just 2) in a 12’x16’ ish (long wall and set up wall is sort of a wide hallway) room. I run a Klipsch rp1400 sub on the false-ish corner/hallway and a rp1000 corner loaded flanking both front speakers. Concrete floor (carpeted), block walls with studs and insulation in the outer walls. The room is pretty heavily treated with a bunch of GIK acoustic products. I did it one or two pieces at a time. I was using Audyssey with the app and a 300 ish Hz curtain. I did prefer directional bass with Denon, it cleaned things up a little for me and works (worked) in my room with a 60 Hz crossover. I never needed any additional bass boost other than deq. and I like bass and loud as well at times. This is a music only set up and I love 2 channel stereo just as much as multi channel. I thought I had things good until last night I went to my bass test heavy hitters and the “factory” tune doesn’t miss a beat. I did unlock the 20 Hz brick wall and applied my curtain after trying both the full range and curtain but I have yet to tweak anything else support group wise. I hear no faults only things previously masked. In a single person dedicated set up ART is still well worth the full price, to me anyway. I’d like to try it in my high ceiling wood floor echo chamber living room but have no need other than curiousity. Also, I really really hate computers for pleasure but surprisingly set up was super simple on a MacBook thingy my wife owns.

 

[kawauso]

I just got ART installed on my 4800 last night. I’ve read your thoughts on speaker sizing so I’ll add I have Kef R7m fronts, R6m, R5m surrounds (just 2) in a 12’x16’ ish (long wall and set up wall is sort of a wide hallway) room. I run a Klipsch rp1400 sub on the false-ish corner/hallway and a rp1000 corner loaded flanking both front speakers. Concrete floor (carpeted), block walls with studs and insulation in the outer walls. The room is pretty heavily treated with a bunch of GIK acoustic products. I did it one or two pieces at a time. I was using Audyssey with the app and a 300 ish Hz curtain. I did prefer directional bass with Denon, it cleaned things up a little for me and works (worked) in my room with a 60 Hz crossover. I never needed any additional bass boost other than deq. and I like bass and loud as well at times. This is a music only set up and I love 2 channel stereo just as much as multi channel. I thought I had things good until last night I went to my bass test heavy hitters and the “factory” tune doesn’t miss a beat. I did unlock the 20 Hz brick wall and applied my curtain after trying both the full range and curtain but I have yet to tweak anything else support group wise. I hear no faults only things previously masked. In a single person dedicated set up ART is still well worth the full price, to me anyway. I’d like to try it in my high ceiling wood floor echo chamber living room but have no need other than curiousity. Also, I really really hate computers for pleasure but surprisingly set up was super simple on a MacBook thingy my wife owns.

You seem to be enjoying ART.
Your cat looks completely relaxed, too.
I also really love KEF speakers.

SHOW US your listening room )

Ref. my post here #95... This is one of the eight (8) HiRes (6720x4480 pixel) photos of my disk shelves; each of the similar eight (8) shelves contains about 450 CDs (SACDs DVDs), i.e. total about 3,600 physical disks. I used my Canon EOS 5D Mark IV DSLR camera + EF24-105mm F4L IS II USM lens...

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