It's decay, not delay. (But group delay, GD, is reduced.)
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Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac
- Thread starter Flak
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correct, miss spelling from my side
ART will use your speakers up to their measured abilities. So there is no need to designate them as subs. They will be used by ART algo to support the single sub in the range they are able to. My best guess is that ART will assign them with 30-150hz range.Okay, but if I connect one subwoofer, how do I get the other speakers to their full range? And how does Dirac ART, which requires multiple subwoofers, work in this case? Your optional subscriptions are not available for sale in my country
ART does not require multiple subwoofers. There are people using ART in 2.0 systems with large towers and report benefits.
Connecting RCA sub out to your speakers will have the consequence of having them treated as subs which means levels of +10dB compared to the use case when you connect them as mains. I don't remember we had a case like that before and that is why I am saying that it is not clear how would ART treat this setup. You would likely have to set up separate group of subs in this case as they would not be able to match 3000 SVS - which is what Dirac recommends when using subs that are not equally capable.
This is not true. You can use one or zero SW with ART if you choose. As a matter of fact, if you don't own a SW (and relying more on full-range speakers), then you don't even have to pay for the DLBC license (as confirmed by Dirac employee Flavio here and at AVS)!And how does Dirac ART, which requires multiple subwoofers, work in this case? Your optional subscriptions are not available for sale in my country
NorthGraves
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Not a huge fan of using receivers to play music, but that's just my personal preference.
A mediocre DAC, a mediocre pre, a below average amplifier.
Yes, I know, depends on the reference point to compare with.
A mediocre DAC, a mediocre pre, a below average amplifier.
Yes, I know, depends on the reference point to compare with.
I feel the same for now but in say 5 years, when I must downsize, I will definitely sell my multiple dacs, pre, power amps and do it all with an AVR..
lessthanjoey
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There may be measurable differences, but none of that is audible.
ART on the other hand is grossly audible. We need to focus on things that actually make a difference.
NorthGraves
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It's not even close to my ears.
Desktop: PC-->DDC-->DAC--->Pre-->Power Amp
An external clock to both DDC and the DAC.
Nice speakers too.
Vs. the Denon X3800H, even with fully external amplfication.
Never measured with anything.
Audibly - not even close, night and day.
But I never ever tried to "marry" music and the movies.
Assembled the office setup with one purpose, and the HT room with a different one.
P.S. Yes, receivers can play music too.
lessthanjoey
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Given you've never measured anything I'm highly skeptical. Sighted bias is a very real thing, as is level-dependent preference, etc. Read around here some more, you'll find we're big fans of backing up claims with measurements and no one has successfully shown a non-broken amplifier, etc, to be audibly detectable vs any other I'm blind testing. Speakers? Room correction? Absolutely. Electronics ? No.
Why?
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Question -when using multiple subwoofers how do you work out which sub ART has selected as the LFE channel? How does it select?
Has anyone compared Dirac ART to OCA's A1 Evo Express in terms of sound quality improvement? I used A1 EVO Express, and I like the result and certainly the price. Has anyone used both?
Sub ch 1 is LFE
True - but the level of what is possible with a mediocre DAC and a mediocre pre has shifted massively from what those categories could achieve 20 or 30 years ago.
When instead you consider it in terms of thresholds of audibility - the AVR DAC's are beyond the quality thresholds of audibility - ie: in a double blind test with a state of the art pre or dac, most of not all people will be unable to differentiate between them.
It becomes a question of what is "Good Enough"...
And once the DAC and Pre become "Good Enough" - then the DSP becomes the primary factor in improving the actual in room performance of the system.
Various DSP's primarily focused on EQ have come to dominate the market, but 99% of what they do, was already being done 50 years ago with analogue graphic equalisers... so not really new, but much more refined in today's renditions
ART brings a completely new paradigm to tuning the system to the room (and vice versa)
And therein lies a potential order of magnitude improvement in what is possible in our listening spaces.
The step up from the mediocre DAC and Pre in the AVR to a State of the Art pre and DAC will typically cost a bomb, and provide marginal (if any) audible improvements - the room dominates by multiple orders of magnitude!
ART on an AVR, improves things noticeably and immediately in most setups.
Sometimes we need to ensure that we don't let best be the enemy of better....
In value terms, we can achieve much greater value with an AVR, its' DSP and ART, than we can with architectural redesign, custom construction and associated room treatments - which are the only other tools we have that can achieve what ART provides.
Does that mean you never got into SACD, DVD-Audio, BD Audio, or Dolby Atmos music?
NorthGraves
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If you insist on an objective measurement, the Denon X3800H measures pretty terribly
Denon AVR-X3800H Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X3800H 9.4 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and costs US $1,699. Not much to say about the look of the unit as it is pretty much similar/same as last generations. Here is the back panel...
www.audiosciencereview.com
That doesn't mean it cannot process Dolby Atmos tracks in movies.
NorthGraves
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Absolutely, it does.
I like listening to stereo DSD 64-512 now and then, but the multi-channel formats - you are correct, I don't.
It doesn't mean that higher end pre-processors don't exist, they just don't cost $1,000 USD like my Denon
.Also, I'd be careful not to conflate the pure functionality, e.g., can it or can it not decode X, vs. the actual quality of the components, like the DAC #1 vs DAC #2 etc.
NorthGraves
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Fully agree.
NorthGraves
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Short version - the separate components are readily available, and you don't need to spend 10x the amount to get a MUCH better result, audibly, compared to any receiver.
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