Those level adjustments should be done before Dirac "processing block", right after channel input/decoding. Not at outputs after Dirac, where they cause issues with ART calibration. This would also mean that there's only LFE trim adjustment, not separate trims for each subwoofer.
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Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac
- Thread starter Flak
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Don't really understand what is the point. I think my post was pretty clear. As far as subs go it is not really important if you can adjust them individually via AVR as you can adjust them separately with their DSP or knob.
Umik-1 is still on the way. The whole thing is a result of unplanned Black Friday craziness.
No, I have not yet measured the room.
I'm nervous about making my question hypothetical instead of dealing with the problems (room) at hand. But the fact that you responded to my question with a question of your own leads me to think that maybe this is an "it depends..." situation. Is that true? I was hoping it was going to be a simple case of "send the wife shopping, unplug the refrigerator, turn off the furnace, and...". Of course the fact that this thread has 129 pages should give me a hint.
But circling back around, should I do the RTA with or without all the noisemakers running? Or both and compare?
agentcooper
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My take? Save some time and just turn everything off before doing the measurements. If you don't you'll just remain curious if you ought to have.
Or, I suppose, if you're really curious about the answer, measure away. But say you get some slight deviation in the on/off measurements. Then you're left with the question, "Is that difference audible?"
If you're going to the trouble of turning everything off for the RTA measurement, why not just prevent potential interference and do your ART measurement then too?
Hi everyone,
My system is a Denon X4800H + Definitive Technology BP9080 in front + DEfinitive Technology BP9060 surround. Dirac ART has made a significant difference in sound quality, but I still miss the low bass, which I love, especially at lower volumes. I was wondering if I could add the SVS SB-3000 to this system. Will this setup improve the bass? How do I connect all the subwoofers for calibration?
My system is a Denon X4800H + Definitive Technology BP9080 in front + DEfinitive Technology BP9060 surround. Dirac ART has made a significant difference in sound quality, but I still miss the low bass, which I love, especially at lower volumes. I was wondering if I could add the SVS SB-3000 to this system. Will this setup improve the bass? How do I connect all the subwoofers for calibration?
Well you would connect the sub to the RCA output of the 4800H and that would be it. Sub should improve the bass response especially with ART.
Which sub is optimal for your setup is a different question. Size of the room, expectations of SPL including distance to MLP and FQ extension vs. distortion would guide you to the right answer. SB 3000 is for sure a capable sub in the mid range offering. Many more subs above or below that range.
You could add practically any subwoofer you want. You can review your manual with the 4800 to connect a subwoofer. But the process is simple. Locate the subwoofer out RCA connection on the back of the 4800 and connect it to the input on whichever subwoofer you buy.
Since you mentioned SVS, they also sell subwoofer cables- https://www.svsound.com/products/svs-soundpath-subwoofer-cable
Usually you will then set the gain on the subwoofer to about the mid-point. Then you can run the ART measurement process again and let it calibrate everything.
OK, but I only connect the SVS? What about the other subwoofers in the front and surround speakers? The X4800H has outputs for 4 subwoofers.
We are a bunch of nerds in here and to over do things is comon in the search of knowledge.
Had i been in your seat i would measre the heck out of it just ti know and understand how it would impact my listening room.
As @agentcooper said, unplugg and calibrate - done
Not familiar with your speakers. If they have active subs within them I would still use the normal speaker connections, not the sub connections. ART will detect the capability of these speakers and use then to their best capabilities.
If you connect them to sub outputs they will be treated as LFE, which is a bit different. Also, they will be not in the same league as 3000 series, so would anyway need to be separated into a separate sub group. I don't have this use case, so my advice is general based on how I understand ART operates. Experimenting is always interesting and might bring unexpected solutions.
Those aren’t common speakers but it looks simple enough to figure out. You can connect the speaker wire, and a set for Atmos, from the 4800 to the speakers. You can use one of the subwoofer outputs from the 4800 to the speakers LFE input (RCA connection).
Attachments
And that will do what in your view that is better than treating them like any other speaker? Also, anything particular for setting up with Atmos or just a side note?
Not exactly sure what you are asking.
It’s basically three speakers in one box. Up firing Atmos, followed by normal tower speaker, and finally a powered subwoofer. All in one tower speaker with connections for each. I would be sure to setup the speaker layout in the AVR as up firing Atmos mode for those effects.
OK I get the Atmos part. The worst Atmos solution, but we all have to deal with what we have.
But sub is not really a sub, it's just extension of the speaker. Connecting it to LFE will be +10dB more which is likely not going to work well at high volumes. Not sure to what extent can ART compensate for that. Connecting it as a speaker will be a safer solution that will still bring its capabilities to the system.
The LFE input on Definitive Technology speakers is optional, so they can be used as regular full-range speakers.
You would then connect only one of the X4800H’s subwoofer outputs to an external subwoofer such as the SB-3000.
There is no need to use all four subwoofer outputs on the X4800H; a single subwoofer is sufficient, which also allows you to choose a more powerful model.
Recommended options include the VTF-3 MK5 HP and the ULS-15 MK2.
NorthGraves
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Hello!
New to this, wondering if what I did took me to 95%+ of "there" or am I missing something critical?
1) My config:
Denon X3800H in pure pre mode, the amplification is 100% external.
7.2.4 config (7 speakers on the floor, 4 heights, 2 subs).
UMIK-2 microphone.
2) Bought the Bundle - RC + BC + ART (all three) during the Black Friday sale.
3) Took 13 measurements, simply followed the suggested points in Dirac software.
4) After that, loaded the Audio Advice target curves to All Groups (the +5 dB one)
5) Increased the bass (left) slider for Group 7 subwoofers to +10 dB
6) Enabled infrasonic for Group 7 subwoofers in all groups
The rest is default, F-support low, F-support high, support groups enabled, the support itself (like -18 dB) etc. - didn't change any of that.
7) Calculate, Export filter
New to this, wondering if what I did took me to 95%+ of "there" or am I missing something critical?
1) My config:
Denon X3800H in pure pre mode, the amplification is 100% external.
7.2.4 config (7 speakers on the floor, 4 heights, 2 subs).
UMIK-2 microphone.
2) Bought the Bundle - RC + BC + ART (all three) during the Black Friday sale.
3) Took 13 measurements, simply followed the suggested points in Dirac software.
4) After that, loaded the Audio Advice target curves to All Groups (the +5 dB one)
5) Increased the bass (left) slider for Group 7 subwoofers to +10 dB
6) Enabled infrasonic for Group 7 subwoofers in all groups
The rest is default, F-support low, F-support high, support groups enabled, the support itself (like -18 dB) etc. - didn't change any of that.
7) Calculate, Export filter
Perfect. How is the sound quality?
NorthGraves
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It's extremely coherent and balanced in the movies. Tight, clear, natural.
Okay, but if I connect one subwoofer, how do I get the other speakers to their full range? And how does Dirac ART, which requires multiple subwoofers, work in this case? Your optional subscriptions are not available for sale in my country
Normaly it is bass management that handles the cross over points and redirect the bass signal from every ch to the sub.Okay, but if I connect one subwoofer, how do I get the other speakers to their full range? And how does Dirac ART, which requires multiple subwoofers, work in this case? Your optional subscriptions are not available for sale in my country
"standard" says that the cross over should be at 80hz, depending on your speakers it can be between 30hz - 120hz
And to it you have the LFE ch that is a bass effect ch
Art does not use bass management as it normaly does.
You have the ability to use every speakers to reduce the rooms impact on the sound - reducing the delay.
Standard value is to let ART work from 150hz and downwards.
But you can change the upper, lower limit and the lvl for every ch.
So if you have fronts that can play really low and +2 subs ART has a solid ground to reduce the delay.
In my setup with subs
Red graph is Dirac Bass control (bass management) and pink is with ART
Looks as the only gain is at 120hz - straighter response
Here is delay, there you see what ART does.
Dirac with bass management
And ART - delay is reduced with several dB:s
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