You mean change the preset before you connect Dirac to the AVR? EDIT: Ah sorry, yeah tha worked thx!
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Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac
- Thread starter Flak
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Well I guess raising the effects channel makes sense - it isn't designed to be localised or provide precise imaging....“So you wanted to raise the LFE rather than stop at +12 dB — nice move.
Even if the low end isn’t perfectly controlled, that’s okay. Loudness covers up a lot of sins.
Keep the base layer accurate - raise the LFE and accept a bit less control in exchange for loud effects....
I can see the logic (assuming the base layer is in fact also bass capable... otherwise it becomes a more serious compromise)
Fidji
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I am following this thread as I will be installing second HT next year, and I want to understand whether Denon/Marantz implementation of ART suits my needs [my other setup is fully blown Trinnov with Waveforming]. I can see ART working as intended in terms of bass correction, which is good. My recent audition of Storm based ART install was not super convincing, but this would have more to do with that room acoustics above ART frequency than ART itself [in other words, bass was much drier than rest of the frequencies and it sounded off]
I am not interested in Storm, as for similar money I can get Trinnov Alt 16/Ci. Would be more than happy to go Marantz AV10 route, if it ticks most important boxes. I can live with 4 subs limit of AV10 [I would just go raw power route with 4x21in or maybe some 4xdouble 18in boxes]
One of them is the ability to deliver proper bass, and specifically to handle BEQ.
As some of the movie fans know, we are being served bass neutered versions of most movies recently, especially with new 4K Atmos releases [see example of Master and Commander]. Atrocity like this is norm, rather than exception and it defeats all the purpose of having high performant HT, you could stay with the soundbar under your TV. People go out their way and make lot of effort to get their systems playing down to single digits and is worth nothing, as their is no content for it, sadly.
So would Marantz/Denon be able in some half practical manner address this issue - I am looking for ability to quickly adjust the output with filter like this. [My current Trinnov routine is to have presets with 6 9 and 12dB LS on 22Hz and I swithc them on, in controlled manner, if needed for specific movie and can adjust with PEQ in 3 minutes for anything more]
Thsi leads me to another question - is there any way to see, which filters are being applied already on low end? I would prefer not to blindly add anothr 15db on top of existing e.g. 10dB ART filter already there.
thanks for clarification.
I am not interested in Storm, as for similar money I can get Trinnov Alt 16/Ci. Would be more than happy to go Marantz AV10 route, if it ticks most important boxes. I can live with 4 subs limit of AV10 [I would just go raw power route with 4x21in or maybe some 4xdouble 18in boxes]
One of them is the ability to deliver proper bass, and specifically to handle BEQ.
As some of the movie fans know, we are being served bass neutered versions of most movies recently, especially with new 4K Atmos releases [see example of Master and Commander]. Atrocity like this is norm, rather than exception and it defeats all the purpose of having high performant HT, you could stay with the soundbar under your TV. People go out their way and make lot of effort to get their systems playing down to single digits and is worth nothing, as their is no content for it, sadly.
So would Marantz/Denon be able in some half practical manner address this issue - I am looking for ability to quickly adjust the output with filter like this. [My current Trinnov routine is to have presets with 6 9 and 12dB LS on 22Hz and I swithc them on, in controlled manner, if needed for specific movie and can adjust with PEQ in 3 minutes for anything more]
Thsi leads me to another question - is there any way to see, which filters are being applied already on low end? I would prefer not to blindly add anothr 15db on top of existing e.g. 10dB ART filter already there.
thanks for clarification.
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Fidji
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and my 3rd question re ART - how is seat to seat consistency - is anybody with e.g. 2 row cinema or 3 seater sofa able to post measurements out of different positions?
In my session that I described above it was audible [although not annoying] that there is not the same bass quality out of MLP.
In my session that I described above it was audible [although not annoying] that there is not the same bass quality out of MLP.
If AVR10 works as the cinema range you can have 6 Dirac presets.
Takes a couple of sec to change between them
Even respons over bigger area,
If we start with Dirac Live it self, it has one down side.
The bigger the area the harder it has to get a respons that follows your target.
I have no real proof that changing the area in the software does anything. (Dirac have never told me a straight answer)
Years back there was a multi row area but it is gone since a couple of years.
With ART i have never really checked how the bass behaves over a bigger area.
Everything above 150hz is the standard Dirac live so over that point the above text in in affect.
I would like to belive it is better but i see the same behaivor as DL that a larger area can mess up the respons under 150hz at MLP
I do not have much experience with Trinnov but what i have heard had impressed me greatly !
Takes a couple of sec to change between them
Even respons over bigger area,
If we start with Dirac Live it self, it has one down side.
The bigger the area the harder it has to get a respons that follows your target.
I have no real proof that changing the area in the software does anything. (Dirac have never told me a straight answer)
Years back there was a multi row area but it is gone since a couple of years.
With ART i have never really checked how the bass behaves over a bigger area.
Everything above 150hz is the standard Dirac live so over that point the above text in in affect.
I would like to belive it is better but i see the same behaivor as DL that a larger area can mess up the respons under 150hz at MLP
I do not have much experience with Trinnov but what i have heard had impressed me greatly !
@Oddball
Support will raise the issue with the developers.
They know i have fixed the issue my self but they would like to understand why support ch can effect the top end respons.
It can take some time but they are on it.
So if a new DL version appears and it says you have to re-measure, it is not my fault.
*hiding in the bushes*
Support will raise the issue with the developers.
They know i have fixed the issue my self but they would like to understand why support ch can effect the top end respons.
It can take some time but they are on it.
So if a new DL version appears and it says you have to re-measure, it is not my fault.
*hiding in the bushes*
Fidji
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Just look on the respons above 150hz
First one has a jagged respons due to large measuring area
The different colors are me measuring the support ART uses so not important here
Fidji
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Just look on the respons above 150hz
First one has a jagged respons due to large measuring area
The different colors are me measuring the support ART uses so not important here
Aah, Ok, I get it - actually it is normal, probably no way to get Nice/Flat FR mid/high in large area just by EQ. Trinnov is the same - one spot perfect, wider area - not so much, but more uniform than without EQ. This is why still getting the speaker dispersion characteristics/room acoustics right in analogue domain is as important as it always was.
My "family" presets are using just very broad filters above 150Hz to get tonality right in order to avoid over correction in some places.
Once you are out with the mic again, please don't forget about me and take some sweeps in different places, bass is enough. Actually Seat-to-Seat is quite important, as it will be big sofa and are around 3x2 where people could be sitting/laying.
Dang that's an aggressive curveThis was a bit of an eye opener..
Sofa wide, 13 measuring points
Target curve +10dB in the bass - movies and infected mushroom
Support LCR - 50-150hz @-18dB
Support subs 20-160hz @ -24dB
MLP measurment LCR
Leaf seat measurement LCR
1/6 smoothing
View attachment 488917
@Fidji
Yep, it serves its purpose also it is Perfect to scare peopleDang that's an aggressive curve
But here it was to see how ART behaves over a larger area - Excellent i would say
For music i have 4-5dB boost
Wow - never knew that we had assignable outputs in D&M. Wonder why they did not go loud about it as it is really a great thing.
As I noted, I never had a use case for that but it is really good to know it is possible. I still have 2 channels in my system unused but not much use for them due to placement constraints. Perhaps a second center over my large LCD would be the only use.
I guess that’s quite a wide sofa, but the bass consistency is really impressive. Even when I measured from spots far from the main seat, it stayed within an acceptable range — some ripples, but still fine and with very little decay.This was a bit of an eye opener..
Sofa wide, 13 measuring points
Target curve +10dB in the bass - movies and infected mushroom
Support LCR - 50-150hz @-18dB
Support subs 20-160hz @ -24dB
MLP measurment LCR
Leaf seat measurement LCR
1/6 smoothing
View attachment 488917
@Fidji
Also, “Perfect to scare people” might be a quote for the ages
It seems this feature isn’t available on all D&M models — only on the higher-end ones like the A1H, A10H, and AV10.
I actually didn’t know about it when I bought my A1H, but it turned out to be a really useful feature.
If you know anyone who could make good use of it, definitely let them know!
Wonder, what would happen if you connected subs to those ch ?It seems this feature isn’t available on all D&M models — only on the higher-end ones like the A1H, A10H, and AV10.
I actually didn’t know about it when I bought my A1H, but it turned out to be a really useful feature.
If you know anyone who could make good use of it, definitely let them know!
It will not be seen as subs but if you put curtains and boost the target you would be able to use it for different things
Smooth out the respons/decay in the low end - also use it for better output ?
You found a rare jewel - so we should all thank you for that. Likes up for kawauso. She needs at least 10 of them for this find.It seems this feature isn’t available on all D&M models — only on the higher-end ones like the A1H, A10H, and AV10.
I actually didn’t know about it when I bought my A1H, but it turned out to be a really useful feature.
If you know anyone who could make good use of it, definitely let them know!
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