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Active is better sounding than passive

Active is better sounding than passive ?

  • 1. Yes

    Votes: 86 47.0%
  • 2. No

    Votes: 57 31.1%
  • 3. Passive sound better

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 4. I dont know

    Votes: 37 20.2%

  • Total voters
    183

NiagaraPete

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But wait Tangband. If we are to see if it is possible to generalize (which I find hard to believe) , active -passive. You say active speakers, but there are many of them. But active STUDIO monitors, that's really what you mean, right? Professionally designed, for professional use that is also great for home HiFi? Then I think it will be a different game.:)
No not really. In years past I've owned a couple Linn active systems. The crossovers you put in the amps so as example amp1 runs treble, amp2 runs bass, 2 sets of leads to speaker treble and bass. Linn and others have had active for 25+ years but it's gastly expensive. It was though a huge improvement over passive.
 
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Triliza

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A pair of kh420 is cheap regarding the hi-fi world.
If you mean that kh420 is the entry level for consumers farfield HiFi, you make my point. They costs 9400 euro for a pair (thomman.de), for most of us mortals they cost hell of a lot of money. I believe you understand that.
 

Thomas_A

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Sorry I completely don't get the point. You've accomplished nothing but adding another device in the signal path. Nothing is going to fix that mess of an analog crossover.

Active is source > DSP > amp1 > tweeter, amp2 > woofer, mic > EQ (other goodies)
source->EQ->amp->x-over/speaker.
Exactly like Amir does when he adjust frequency response.
 

gnarly

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As e.g. the LS50 passive vs. active crossover that was exemplified in the first post. There is virtually no difference in the crossover region output between them, and any small fractions of dBs can be EQued.
The LS50 is a perfect choice, if you are solely trying to make a case for very little difference between passive and active.
(Although again, KEF makes a case for differences in their white paper;))
It's a very neat little two-way coax...doesn't get any easier to process/xover.

But if you want to broadly look at far more common non-coax 2-way designs, or 3-ways, or heaven help you if you go beyond that......
Iow, look at anything other than a super simple easy case.......well, goodbye very little difference.
 

Frgirard

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If you mean that kh420 is the entry level for consumers farfield HiFi, you make my point. They costs 9400 euro for a pair (thomman.de), for most of us mortals they cost hell of a lot of money. I believe you understand that.
In 2017 I paid my demo paire 6000 euros 10% under the public price.
I didn't take care that the price go to the moon. Sad news.
In 2017 I found a paire of active atc 50 at 6500 euro. Atc manufactured in 1993.

I aware 9500 euro is the price of a car or 6 month of wage for numerous people but we are in the hifi world Wilson, focal, proac, revel...
 

NiagaraPete

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Peluvius

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Show me the measurements.
This ain't no Audiogon forum.

Active1and2.PNG
 

Peluvius

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What does that prove? These scores are easily within the margin or error.

"The process or an instance of establishing the validity of a statement especially by derivation from other statements in accordance with principles of reasoning". The information qualifies in that regard although in truth the "is" needs to be replaced with "can".
 

NiagaraPete

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Add an (Active?) sub......:

View attachment 224374
What I don't get is how does someone test a speaker with subwoofer on a klippel? We just fell into subjective. Okay so we have tools like REV and GLM but both can't be tested in this format.
 

Thomas_A

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He does that for listening tests. Why use EQ for Klppel?
You meaure and adjust errors to get that linear frequency response. Not for Kippel. Dirac, REW and other tools can be used to adjust the fr reponse as well. Add to that room correction EQ below 250 Hz.
 

Triliza

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Add an (Active?) sub......:

View attachment 224374
I think you are not taking into account the nearfield-midfield-farfield usage of the above speakers. I bet that in that context the 8030c, kh 80 or Kali lp-6 would beat Revel Salon's if you seat ~1m away from them in your desktop setup. For nearfield I would think that we all agree that active speakers are vastly superior to passive ones. The score above isn't taking that into account as I understand it.
 

Talisman

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As always, it all depends on how a system is implemented. Are there active speakers at the top of audio reproduction? Surely! Just think of the Genelecs. Would I buy them? No, not at those prices and not instead of passive solutions of the same range, not because I think the passives sound better but because the system of speakers, amplifiers, dacs etc etc excites me more, it amuses me, it is my passion.
If I cared ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY about the music I could take the genelecs and live peacefully, but hifi for me is also a fun, a passion, the pleasure of trying new things, of trying different speakers, of changing an element when I feel like it.
And then I hate the idea that if only one element of an active amplifier breaks, the whole system won't work, it might never happen, but statistically the more complex a system is and the more elements it has, the more likely something is to break, and if many years have passed I could have great difficulties and restore the system.
Instead, I'm sure my passive speakers will continue to work over and over and over ...
 

NiagaraPete

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You meaure and adjust errors to get that linear frequency response. Not for Kippel. Dirac, REW and other tools can be used to adjust the fr reponse as well. Add to that room correction EQ below 250 Hz.
In the context of the thread going active makes that all work better.
 

NiagaraPete

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Triliza

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Why? How is listening distance a factor?
I don't know, I'd assume if you use the Salons on your desktop, they will look a bit out of place and I don't think they will sound very nice that close. Genelec in their guide for their own speakers for example says that:
When the distance to the monitor is too short, summing of sound from multiple drivers is not happening as designed, and this affects the flatness of the frequency response. A flatter and more stable frequency response is obtained by a larger distance.
So I am making the assumptions that the same applies for passive speakers that are not optimized for nearfield usage. Maybe I'm wrong, I am not sure.
 
OP
Tangband

Tangband

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Sure I know that an active must be used instead of the passive. But now you have a competent passive x-over, and will compare that to an active. As e.g. the LS50 passive vs. active crossover that was exemplified in the first post. There is virtually no difference in the crossover region output between them, and any small fractions of dBs can be EQued. Most difference is in the bass and highest treble which is not the crossover, and can also be EQued.

So the measured output of the passive speaker can be EQued to be virtually identical to the active one.
As already pointed out - passive crossovers are innacurate and unlinear compared to dsp crossovers .

You are entirely wrong asuming that the crossovers in ls50 and ls50 wireless is the same - they are not . I would guess the ls50 has both eq , notchfiltering and a higher order crossoverslope in the dsp crossover , taiming the breakupmodes in the metal driver in a much better way than the passive speaker.

Further , the frequency response may look the same , but different order of crossover and different suppression of breakup modes makes a big impact on sound quality .
 
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