Active Designs & Their Favorability

[Jukka]

If you are very young and if the amplifier is near you can ear noise .
If you are quite old as I am , you cannot generaly ear noise of an active loudspeake system.

If you want a better noise ratio, you must buy, if possible, an high level class d amplifier as Hypex NCore but with too much power.

There are lower power/cheaper NCores available, like these. I hope equivalent Purifis become available.

 

[Vintage57]

 

[stevenswall]

First two claims are quite bold. To be able to claim that, we would need to give to Amir those inbuilt DAC's to be tested with everything in place and compare measurements to other standalone DAC's and amplifiers.

Do you really think that stuff they put in active loudspeakers are THE BEST ? They are NOT. They are good enough for planned price range. Oh they did optimise the cheapest amplifier/DAC/DSP they could find to achieve the level of performance they aim for a certain price range. No manufacturer uses BEST unless profit is at least 10 times the investment and those are always flagship super-expensive products.

Even in Neumann you'll get good enough, not the best out there - believe it or don't, it's up to you.

Best is irrelevent. Transparent is the key word. If something is transparent to the human ear, then something eighteen octillion orders of magnitude better is no better from a practical standpoint.

 

[richard12511]

Honestly can't figure out why people get so worked up about hiss. If the speakers reduced gain when music isn't playing then the hiss would be gone but the impact on sound quality would be exactly nothing.

It's a trade off like everything else, and it may not even matter depending on your listening distance. Personally I wouldn't buy JBL LSRs but that's because I am willing to commit more money, I think they're fine as casual listening, desktop, or hobbyist mixing tools. I doubt any serious pros use them as a primary system.

Hyperfocusing on this one thing is ignoring many other factors.

Yeah, honestly it doesn't bother me it all. If the tradeoff is 5% better sound, I can live with a little hiss.

 

[dwkdnvr]

If a typical wife needs to be able to fix it, you can rule out 200% of any audio gear.

Not 'fix it', just 'keep it running'. Just pointing out that there is a set of applications where a DSP system has to function with no more complexity than a stereo receiver - select inputs, volume control, and not go AWOL randomly. It just happens that the only real place I have for a high-end music system is integrated with our living room TV system, so I'm particularly aware of this limitation.

For dedicated music room/man cave/desktop setups, there is obviously a lot more freedom. I'm using EqAPO ->HDMI -> NAD T748 for my office speaker building/prototyping setup for example, and it's working acceptably for the most part.

 

[Zvu]

 

[ttimer]

Not 'fix it', just 'keep it running'. Just pointing out that there is a set of applications where a DSP system has to function with no more complexity than a stereo receiver - select inputs, volume control, and not go AWOL randomly.

I would argue that this is the case for almost the entire audio market. For most customers, the audio system, no matter how expensive, is a tool for playing music, which has to work just like any other tool: reliably and with a minimum of fuss

The interest is usually with the music, not with the intricacies of the system.

 

[ezra_s]

Yea, as you can see in my profile, I have decided to go the active route. I had to reduce the size of my listening area and was swayed by the advantages of active crossovers versus passive.

Im interested in your experience with these active monitors, but I don't see you opened a thread or such. Care to share it?

 

[aac]

Yeah, honestly it doesn't bother me it all. If the tradeoff is 5% better sound, I can live with a little hiss.

Just judging from this thread it looks like it is solved why speakers that hiss exist - a lot of people don't think that absense of hiss is a part of "better sound".
Which is quite hilarious for this forum, if you look at amplifier test section here
Just imagine comments in amplifier section test if the amp tested was -50 dB distortion @ 2.83V (JBL 3 series datasheet numbers).

 

[Zvu]

Best is irrelevent. Transparent is the key word. If something is transparent to the human ear, then something eighteen octillion orders of magnitude better is no better from a practical standpoint.

I agree but you wrote that you can not find better DAC/DSP/amplifier than what is already in "great studio monitor". That is quite vague and you've not defined what a "great studio monitor" is. If it is one of few brands i've mentioned earlier in thread, then maybe you could be right.

We already established that if manufacturers define a loudspeaker as -studio monitor- it actually doesn't have to be one, but they are just trying to sell it as "better computer loudspeakers". Other products that come from long lineage of studio monitor manufacturers rarely fulfill the demands of low coloration/distortion, linearity, uniform directivity etc. So, where does that leave us ? It leaves us with few manufacturers and handful of models - that's it.

 

[Absolute]

Hiss is the worst. I had to reduce the gain on my hypex nc400s to 13 dB to get rid of the hiss from the 110 dB/w sensitive JBL M2 tweeters. Also had to ditch Minidsp in favor of Hypex DLCP for the same reason.

If you don't hear any hiss it's because your deaf or have insensitive speakers.

 

[aac]

Hiss is the worst. I had to reduce the gain on my hypex nc400s to 13 dB to get rid of the hiss from the 110 dB/w sensitive JBL M2 tweeters. Also had to ditch Minidsp in favor of Hypex DLCP for the same reason.

If you don't hear any hiss it's because your deaf or have insensitive speakers.

M2 tweeter has a pretty big voltage divider to reduce sensitivity, doesn't it (probably can't work with noisy PA amps without it)?
What was your DAC and other chain?

 

[A800]

Hiss is the worst. I had to reduce the gain on my hypex nc400s to 13 dB to get rid of the hiss from the 110 dB/w sensitive JBL M2 tweeters. Also had to ditch Minidsp in favor of Hypex DLCP for the same reason.

If you don't hear any hiss it's because your deaf or have insensitive speakers.

That's why you should listen to 130dB+ for longer periods of time.
The resulting tinnitus will cover any hiss.
Problem solved.

 

[Absolute]

M2 tweeter has a pretty big voltage divider to reduce sensitivity, doesn't it (probably can't work with noisy PA amps without it)?
What was your DAC and other chain?

There's a 9 dB downpadding and some tweeter protection in a filter, but you're still a good deal above the woofer sensitivity wise.

The noisy PA amps have low gain, but yes, they'll be hissing

Both minidsp and hypex dlcp are full-on dac/preamp/dsp unit. Dlcp far better than minidsp 2x4hd and 4x10hd.

 

[aac]

There's a 9 dB downpadding and some tweeter protection in a filter, but you're still a good deal above the woofer sensitivity wise.

The noisy PA amps have low gain, but yes, they'll be hissing

Both minidsp and hypex dlcp are full-on dac/preamp/dsp unit. Dlcp far better than minidsp 2x4hd and 4x10hd.

if it bothers you so much maybe just use a digital version of a DSP and then some low noise DAC?

 

[Absolute]

Which is what Hypex dlcp is. No one in their right mind uses analogue dsp these days. Or noisy amplifiers. Or poor dacs. Or small, insensitive speakers

 

[aac]

Using small insensitive speakers is ok if your place is small, don't see a problem.

 

[Absolute]

Using small insensitive speakers is ok if your place is small, don't see a problem.

I kid

 

[stevenswall]

I agree but you wrote that you can not find better DAC/DSP/amplifier than what is already in "great studio monitor". That is quite vague and you've not defined what a "great studio monitor" is. If it is one of few brands i've mentioned earlier in thread, then maybe you could be right.

We already established that if manufacturers define a loudspeaker as -studio monitor- it actually doesn't have to be one, but they are just trying to sell it as "better computer loudspeakers". Other products that come from long lineage of studio monitor manufacturers rarely fulfill the demands of low coloration/distortion, linearity, uniform directivity etc. So, where does that leave us ? It leaves us with few manufacturers and handful of models - that's it.

Great studio monitor: One with a transparent DAC and amp section.

I agree, there aren't a ton of great studio monitors. I've bought and returned over $10k worth of speakers to land on one that I kept.

 

[Zvu]

Now curiosity has me. What did you end up with ?