Active Configuration - Camilla DSP

[mike7877]

I've got all the parts for my active crossover! My last part arrived 2-3 weeks early, so I haven't yet had the chance to remove the internal passive crossover from the box and wire the rear pair of inputs directly to the drivers. Actually, I lied - I don't have the tweeter DC blocking caps yet (I'll get them soon). But I have everything else.

I haven't decided on whether I'd like to build a second box yet or not - I'm thinking maybe I will because since the baffle is removable, it wouldn't be extremely difficult to switch between the two if need/want be.

So anyway, I've started on trying to get Camilla DSP to work with Equalizer APO and haven't had much luck... I tried following the readme and instructions, but I've only been able to get exactly nowhere lol. Even with the benefit for the included example being a two way split (what I need lol)

Does anyone know of any web tutorial page which goes through setting this up, step by step, on a Windows machine?

Also, random question - I have a random cheap fanless 10.6" Asus laptop with Celeron N4200 (1.1GHz base, 2.7GHz 2 core turbo, 6W design power) with 4GB RAM (2400 single channel) which I'd like to have do the crossover part (strap an optical input to it, then it drives the DAC, maybe also run Tidal from it). Is this enough processing power, or will I need to find a better fanless solution? (exact model is ASUS L210 - If you don't know about the somewhat modern Celerons, this one is about the same speed as a low end mobile 2nd gen Intel i3)


Also, are there any technically better options available to buy? (with an easy to use UI, easily customizable, same or better processing ability, not a thousand bucks...)?
Reason being, I'm going to be doing a bunch of tuning (naturally....) and may end up doing two pairs of speakers
1) ATC SCM20 PSL Pro Mk2
2) Polk LSiM 703

 

[Keith_W]

CamillaDSP on Windows was extremely difficult to install. Maybe @HenrikEnquist has written a SETUP.EXE for Windows users since I last looked at it last year. When I tried to install it on Windows, it was way beyond my skills. A friend came over to help me install it, but even he took a few hours and had to leave before it was completely installed. He managed to get it working, but there were so many steps to launch it that I gave up. All I can tell you is that you can theoretically install it on Windows, but the experience is not pleasant.

CamillaDSP for Linux / Raspberry Pi: you can find step-by-step instructions here.

I recommend Hang Loose Convolver by @mitchco. I can't tell you if it is technically better than Camilla or not since I can't get Camilla to run on Windows.

 

[Ktacos]

EQ APO can do all the filtering you'd need for an active speaker, you don't need camillaDSP which I also found to be kind of a nightmare to use.

Also, are there any technically better options available to buy? (with an easy to use UI, easily customizable, same or better processing ability, not a thousand bucks.

Minidsp stuff, thomann has some digital rack crossovers, one model is the DSP206.

 

[mike7877]

CamillaDSP on Windows was extremely difficult to install. Maybe @HenrikEnquist has written a SETUP.EXE for Windows users since I last looked at it last year. When I tried to install it on Windows, it was way beyond my skills. A friend came over to help me install it, but even he took a few hours and had to leave before it was completely installed. He managed to get it working, but there were so many steps to launch it that I gave up. All I can tell you is that you can theoretically install it on Windows, but the experience is not pleasant.

CamillaDSP for Linux / Raspberry Pi: you can find step-by-step instructions here.

I recommend Hang Loose Convolver by @mitchco. I can't tell you if it is technically better than Camilla or not since I can't get Camilla to run on Windows.

I'll look into that, thanks!

 

[mike7877]

EQ APO can do all the filtering you'd need for an active speaker, you don't need camillaDSP which I also found to be kind of a nightmare to use.




Minidsp stuff, thomann has some digital rack crossovers, one model is the DSP206.

I've got the hardware I want to use already so won't need any devices.

Is there a good tutorial page for Equalizer APO? I need to make two channels into four, and then do a low pass on one, high pass on the other right? (it's a two-way). Right now, the passive is 2.1kHz Butterworth (3rd order) - I'd like to implement that digitally and then compare the two, and then from there try out a bunch of different things, from like first order at 2.4-3.0kHz, to 2nd order at 1.8-2.4kHz, to 5th order at 1.7kHz-2.0kHz. Maybe even 4th order, but I dunno... (lol I'm joking, of course I won't reject all the 4ths without listening -I'm not a monster!)

 

[Ktacos]

I've got the hardware I want to use already so won't need any devices.

Is there a good tutorial page for Equalizer APO? I need to make two channels into four, and then do a low pass on one, high pass on the other right? (it's a two-way). Right now, the passive is 2.1kHz Butterworth (3rd order) - I'd like to implement that digitally and then compare the two, and then from there try out a bunch of different things, from like first order at 2.4-3.0kHz, to 2nd order at 1.8-2.4kHz, to 5th order at 1.7kHz-2.0kHz. Maybe even 4th order, but I dunno... (lol I'm joking, of course I won't reject all the 4ths without listening -I'm not a monster!)

EQ APO can copy a channel to another, but it's not always that simple, the device needs to be seen as a single device to windows. For example, onboard 5.1 surround that is common on some motherboards can be split/copied, but something like a pro audio interface can't as windows sees each input and output as separate devices.

I can send you a config file if you want that you can load up, and go over it a bit with you. Just need to know what hardware you intend to use to do the filtering.

 

[HenrikEnquist]

CamillaDSP on Windows was extremely difficult to install.

What part(s) did you have trouble with? The gui?

you don't need camillaDSP which I also found to be kind of a nightmare to use.

Please, any more details?

 

[Ktacos]

What part(s) did you have trouble with? The gui?

Please, any more details?

details about what exactly?

 

[Keith_W]

What part(s) did you have trouble with? The gui?

I had trouble installing CamillaDSP itself. I have not looked at CDSP for more than a year, so the installation process may have improved now. I just took a look at the install process and it still requires the user to download Rust and "Build Tools for Visual Studio" and then a command line. I haven't tried it.

One of my friends (Aris) is working with you on improvements to the Linux version. He came to my place last year to help me install Camilla. It took him a few hours and I was completely bewildered by the process. There was no way I would have been able to install it on my own. Since then, he has persistently encouraged me to use it, but I told him firmly that I am not going to try anything unless it has a SETUP.EXE. He told me that I will be waiting a long time. It is free, so I shouldn't expect too much.

To be fair, I should try to install it again by myself since I was told that there have been improvements in the Windows version. Maybe you would be able to comment if the improvements have made installation easier?

 

[somebodyelse]

details about what exactly?

Details about what you found to be a nightmare with CamillaDSP so that Henrik can improve them in a later release.

 

[Ktacos]

Details about what you found to be a nightmare with CamillaDSP so that Henrik can improve them in a later release.

Well for starters if I download the .exe and run it, nothing happens.

 

[3ll3d00d]

I had trouble installing CamillaDSP itself. I have not looked at CDSP for more than a year, so the installation process may have improved now. I just took a look at the install process and it still requires the user to download Rust and "Build Tools for Visual Studio" and then a command line. I haven't tried it.

you might be misreading the instructions as you don't need to do that unless you want to build it from source (though i think it's still a fair assessment of it being a bit of a bear to install).

https://github.com/HEnquist/camilladsp?tab=readme-ov-file#installing references a windows build which contains an exe, run that from a command prompt and looks like it's a fully functioning version.

Well for starters if I download the .exe and run it, nothing happens.

There's no gui there, it's just the dsp engine itself so needs a config file (hence running it thinking it will produce a ui will lead to disappointment). You then need a few other things including the ui backend https://github.com/HEnquist/camillagui-backend and some other bits if you want a ui though you don't *have* to use that ui, you can just write a config file and then run the thing.

 

[Short38]

I hate to offer a simple minded solution but here it is: pick up a dbx three way: fixed 24 db slope LR, adjustable crossover points, adjustable level for each driver, phase inversion option. If the physical box has an audible hum which mine did, unplug the unit, pop the cover and see if the transformer has a thin sheet metal shield if it does remove the shield.

 

[Short38]

Removing shield will void the warranty but hum will be gone. My dbx has been running continuously for about 4 years in a home brew 3 way. Quiet enough for my old ears.

 

[Ktacos]

There's no gui there, it's just the dsp engine itself so needs a config file (hence running it thinking it will produce a ui will lead to disappointment). You then need a few other things including the ui backend https://github.com/HEnquist/camillagui-backend and some other bits if you want a ui though you don't *have* to use that ui, you can just write a config file and then run the thing.

Yeah sorry that's just not he software for me then.

 

[HenrikEnquist]

I just took a look at the install process and it still requires the user to download Rust and "Build Tools for Visual Studio" and then a command line.

Ok, looks like there may be some issues with the documentation. There is no need for any of that, there are pre-build .exe files that you just need to download from the releases page. Any ideas on how I can make this more clear in the readme?

Well for starters if I download the .exe and run it, nothing happens.

Yes the dsp engine is a command line tool, so this is as expected. But the documentation might not make this clear. Any suggestions for improvements to avoid disappointment like this?

 

[Keith_W]

Ok, looks like there may be some issues with the documentation. There is no need for any of that, there are pre-build .exe files that you just need to download from the releases page. Any ideas on how I can make this more clear in the readme?

I will download and install it and give you some feedback for improvement by PM.

FWIW, all commercial software has moved away from command line and manual editing of config files in a text editor. I appreciate that you are giving CDSP away for free, and I do not want to seem unappreciative or ungrateful. But it would be nice if it worked like any other piece of software, i.e. with a GUI.

I would point out that Denis Sbragion's DRC-FIR is an extremely powerful DSP suite, and it is free. It too, requires manual editing of a config file in a text editor. People prefer to pay $900 for Dirac instead of using the free (and probably superior) tool.

 

[somebodyelse]

FWIW, all commercial software has moved away from command line and manual editing of config files in a text editor. I appreciate that you are giving CDSP away for free, and I do not want to seem unappreciative or ungrateful. But it would be nice if it worked like any other piece of software, i.e. with a GUI.

For Windows maybe, but not for linux. Remember a significant use case for CamillaDSP is in headless applications where a (non-web) GUI is worse than useless.

 

[mike7877]

EQ APO can copy a channel to another, but it's not always that simple, the device needs to be seen as a single device to windows. For example, onboard 5.1 surround that is common on some motherboards can be split/copied, but something like a pro audio interface can't as windows sees each input and output as separate devices.

I can send you a config file if you want that you can load up, and go over it a bit with you. Just need to know what hardware you intend to use to do the filtering.

Yes, each stereo pair shows up individually in the devices drop-down menu.

 

[mike7877]

I hate to offer a simple minded solution but here it is: pick up a dbx three way: fixed 24 db slope LR, adjustable crossover points, adjustable level for each driver, phase inversion option. If the physical box has an audible hum which mine did, unplug the unit, pop the cover and see if the transformer has a thin sheet metal shield if it does remove the shield.

I've seen those, they're interesting, but not for this project