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Acoustic stretched ceiling : Worth it ?

vicenzo_del_paris

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Hi all,

I am seeking some advice for my current listening room which is our living room (about 30 m2 – 7.5x4 and 2.5m height).
One side is mostly bay windows, and the back left corner is opened on the kitchen and the hall. Other sides are concrete walls.
We are going to replace our current stretched ceiling (old lacquered PVC one).
I was wondering if using an acoustic stretched ceiling (micro perforated, absorption coeff of 0.3) on its own or coupled with a 5cm layer of acoustic fleece between the concrete ceiling and the stretched ceiling (would probably end up with an absorption coeff around 0.6 or 0.7) would enhance the acoustics, reducing a bit reverbs on medium / highs or would not change anything.
Acoustic stretched ceiling is twice more expensive than regular one and adding the acoustic fleece layer is additional work/cost.
Given,the attached REW measurements (current measurement is the ‘kanta+sub+dirac’ in the mdat file), would you think it would worth it ? or useless ?

Thanks
 

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vicenzo_del_paris

vicenzo_del_paris

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Any hint if a stretch ceiling made of an acoustic canvas (micro perforated) with or without some fleece layer will make the room acoustic better compared a standard one ?

Thanks
 

Blumlein 88

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I think most of us simply don't know. If it has a better absorption coefficient it probably has to help. Beyond that many of us probably don't have the knowledge to help out.

Sorry, if my post seems of no help. I didn't want you to think no one was paying attention to you.

In REW you can do the room simulation where you input the coefficients of absorption. Perhaps you can look up likely values for your materials and do one with and without the stretched acoustic ceiling. Some will be guesses, and you have what sounds like a not rectangular room. Even with this changing the ceiling from a low coefficient to a larger one would give you an idea how it effect things.

1684219687224.png
 
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vicenzo_del_paris

vicenzo_del_paris

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Thanks for the tip about REW :)
I am using the room simulation tool but I completely forgot I could enter absorption coefficient.
 

FrankW

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Any hint if a stretch ceiling made of an acoustic canvas (micro perforated) with or without some fleece layer will make the room acoustic better compared a standard one ?

Thanks
The people who advocate for so called acoustic treatments in domestic living rooms will never ever offer the gold standard of perceptual science - double blind listening tests, to support any such belief. For obvious reasons. However, no one (except the actual blind) listen blind at home. So if one believes in such things, the sight of, for example, this type ceiling, could have an effect, most likely positive. "Worth" it is a separate question, probably only answerable by the user after the fact.
 

Blumlein 88

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The people who advocate for so called acoustic treatments in domestic living rooms will never ever offer the gold standard of perceptual science - double blind listening tests, to support any such belief. For obvious reasons. However, no one (except the actual blind) listen blind at home. So if one believes in such things, the sight of, for example, this type ceiling, could have an effect, most likely positive. "Worth" it is a separate question, probably only answerable by the user after the fact.
Kind of a crazy reply if you ask me. One can measure the effects of such a thing. One can to some extent model the effect prior to implementing the ceiling. While double blind listening is something of a gold standard it is not the answer to everything in life. For instance you don't design an amp by randomly trying different designs and testing with listeners. You follow electrical principles looking for fidelity. You might employ such a test at some point to determine the limits of needed fidelity.

There is work using listening tests for determining what kind of room parameters result in good clear sound. So no part of your reply seems to make any sense.
 

FrankW

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Kind of a crazy reply if you ask me. One can measure the effects of such a thing. One can to some extent model the effect prior to implementing the ceiling. While double blind listening is something of a gold standard it is not the answer to everything in life. For instance you don't design an amp by randomly trying different designs and testing with listeners. You follow electrical principles looking for fidelity. You might employ such a test at some point to determine the limits of needed fidelity.
There is work using listening tests for determining what kind of room parameters result in good clear sound. So no part of your reply seems to make any sense.
A ton of red herring in yours. "Measure" is not same as "audible" and further, "audible" is not same as "preferred". Acoustics and amplifiers, zero correlation.
But when, as expected, zero controlled listening tests can/will be provided, well...
 

fpitas

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For my part, I prefer well-damped rooms for listening. I at least think it sounds more clear. I don't worry a lot about proving something. Ceiling damping is usually a safe bet, in any event.
 

FrankW

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For my part, I prefer well-damped rooms for listening. I at least think it sounds more clear. I don't worry a lot about proving something. Ceiling damping is usually a safe bet, in any event.
Having read most of the papers cited in Tooles book, its clear that a lot of folks who preferred damped rooms with their 2 eyes actually preferred some undamping, example sidewalls, with their 2 ears. Especially for "casual" listening aka "living room" scenarios. But as I noted, no one listens blind at home, so YMMV.
 

fpitas

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Well, JBL had a very live sounding room for the Salon2s in the basement of the Times Square facility. I hated it, so did the non-audiophile gf. We went back and they had installed substantial absorbers and diffusers on the walls. Much more relaxing.
 

fpitas

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fpitas

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I'm sure somebody somewhere likes the super-reverberant sound. I don't.
 

fpitas

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The theater room where they have the K2 S9900s is very dead sounding. We loved it.
 

FrankW

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Well, JBL had a very live sounding room for the Salon2s in the basement of the Times Square facility. I hated it, so did the non-audiophile gf. We went back and they had installed substantial absorbers and diffusers on the walls. Much more relaxing.
There are well established differences between 2 eyes and 2 ears listening. Hopefully no one was living in that basement ;-)
BlindVsSightedMeanLoudspeakerRatings.png
 

fpitas

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There are well established differences between 2 eyes and 2 ears listening. Hopefully no one was living in that basement ;-)
BlindVsSightedMeanLoudspeakerRatings.png
I'm not arguing. But they didn't install all those enormous wall absorbers because they look nice.
 

fpitas

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