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DSJR

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Can more experienced listeners here to these come in and confirm or deny this vibe -

Speakers like JBL 4367's I've heard or the M2's will hugely entertain with a 'big heart' in ways most of not all squitty little stand-mount boxes will almost never do. I believe they also do it without killing neutrality. From the other direction, once overly safe, 'BeeBeeCee inspired' Harbeth models are beginning to have some life and an easier sense of 'clarity' to them in their current expensive XD model range which I have to say I love a lot. I spent a very happy morning doing some turntable work with a pair of C7-XD's playing in the background at moderate volume levels - no loss of involvement there.

Some pro monitors seem to exaggerate 'details' so they can be fixed in the mix where necessary. There's been the odd criticism that Genelecs flatter mixes too much but I obviously have no experience of this. One reason I gather why the NS10 was often used as a worse-case sound box (as were Auratones before it) to make sure the mixes translated properly - actually, the NS10 wasn't so bad domestically if placed on a solid bookshelf up to a wall and not played too loudly.
 

DSJR

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I don't know if it was intended or not. I'd guess if they had vinyl and/or radio replay in mind they would not mix and master for deep bass, at least on the potential singles.

Whatever, what we've got is what we're given. I generally avoid re-masters of old recordings even if they do 'sound better'. I want to hear it as it was in 1973 (or whenever it came out originally), however good or bad.

As I was 'there' in 1974 or so, I can say serious audio people had HUGE speakers where I was working and no lack of bass at all. Lord knows how said speakers would sound today on music mixed on smaller squitters with over-boosted bass. - I cite Thomas Dolby 'The Flat Earth' (OK, it's from 1984 or so) where the remastered CD album has boosted bass yet the bonus tracks don't! TD himself used 'Dissidents - The Search for Truth' as a reference track for choosing speakers and so on -

 

Mart68

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This video by Ken Micallef is sort of relevant

MY HI-FI AUDIO SYSTEM TOUR - YouTube

he talks about his amplifiers, says he doesn't prefer the 'accurate' amp as the inaccurate amp has better 'tone and texture.'

Thing is the tone and texture is on the recording. So you'd think the accurate amp would have accurate tone and texture. Not less of it. Why would you need a device that adds more tone and texture? If the artist wanted that they would have done it in the studio.

It's an odd approach to me but it seems to be the default approach for all subjective enthusiasts, the idea that the system should have a sound of its own is not something they avoid, but actively seek out.
 

Mart68

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As I was 'there' in 1974 or so, I can say serious audio people had HUGE speakers where I was working and no lack of bass at all. Lord knows how said speakers would sound today on music mixed on smaller squitters with over-boosted bass. - I cite Thomas Dolby 'The Flat Earth' (OK, it's from 1984 or so) where the remastered CD album has boosted bass yet the bonus tracks don't! TD himself used 'Dissidents - The Search for Truth' as a reference track for choosing speakers and so on -


yes I like big speakers, won't use anything else. No headphones or dinky little miniature things here :)

But I still find the odd recording that's a bit thin in the bass even so. Try Gary Moore 'Back On The Streets' for example.
 
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DanielT

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This video by Ken Micallef is sort of relevant

MY HI-FI AUDIO SYSTEM TOUR - YouTube

he talks about his amplifiers, says he doesn't prefer the 'accurate' amp as the inaccurate amp has better 'tone and texture.'

Thing is the tone and texture is on the recording. So you'd think the accurate amp would have accurate tone and texture. Not less of it. Why would you need a device that adds more tone and texture? If the artist wanted that they would have done it in the studio.

It's an odd approach to me but it seems to be the default approach for all subjective enthusiasts, the idea that the system should have a sound of its own is not something they avoid, but actively seek out.
Some different approaches to hifi:

 

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DanielT

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I guess the two approaches that David Hildebrand present have the same idea of what hifi is, ie:

High fidelity (often shortened to Hi-Fi or HiFi) is a term used by listeners, audiophiles, and home audio enthusiasts to refer to high-quality reproduction of sound.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fidelity

However, they differ in how this is to be achieved.
 

MediumRare

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Recipe for perfect home audio:
1. Select speakers with the flattest FR and lowest distortion possible, in the form factor that suits your application.
2. Supplement with 1-4 subs, as needed, for proper bass extension.
3. Select amplification (if passive speakers) to allow 10x wattage than your highest typical SPL to ensure dynamics with SINAD at good as you can afford (distortion will jump at the dynamic points so don’t assume "inaudible" at normal SPL will cover dynamic moments).
4. Apply digital (and in extreme cases, physical) room correction.
5. Select a source with at least -96 dB SINAD and flat FR to ensure audible transparency to any recording.
6. Apply personal EQ to taste - yes, some masters are inadequate. Don’t suffer bad cooking just to be ascetic!
 
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DanielT

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What they discuss or have different views ,David Hildebrand video above, can well be seen like this. A painting depicting a forest. How should it be designed to mimic reality? True to nature without "distortion", or should it create a feeling of nature but not in detail imitate it. Just to convey the impression of a forest?

Kind of like that.
 

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DanielT

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Recipe for perfect home audio:
1. Select speakers with the flattest FR and lowest distortion possible, in the form factor that suits your application.
2. Supplement with 1-4 subs, as needed, for proper bass extension.
3. Select amplification (if passive speakers) to allow 10x wattage than your highest typical SPL to ensure dynamics with SINAD at good as you can afford (distortion will jump at the dynamic points so don’t assume "inaudible" at normal SPL will cover dynamic moments.
4. Apply digital (and in extreme cases, physical) room correction.
5. Select a source with at least -96 dB SINAD and flat FR to ensure audible transparency to any recording.
6. Apply personal EQ to taste - yes, some masters are inadequate. Don’t suffer bad cooking just to be ascetic!


It was damn the nicest thing I read since my confirmation.:D
 

MediumRare

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What they discuss or have different views ,David Hildebrand video above, can well be seen like this. A painting depicting a forest. How should it be designed to mimic reality? True to nature without "distortion", or should it create a feeling of nature but not in detail imitate it. Just to convey the impression of a forest?

Kind of like that.
Not really the right analogy: the painting or photo is the work of art. That’s the same as the source for the recording, (including performances and mastering). The playback is the reproduction of the recording, or distribution of the image, in your case. The reproduction must be accurate. Then, if you want to go further and adjust the image for your own lighting conditions and eyes (change the brightness; adjust the vibrancy of your screen) that’s up to you.
 
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JJB70

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I find it varies by genre in my case. Most of the time I listen to classical and like a flat sound signature as applying bass or treble boost makes music sound wrong to me, artificial and contrived. However when I listen to rock and such like I do tend to crank up the bass and treble to give it some sparkle and kick. And for acoustic folk music and singer-songwriter stuff I often keep it flat but with a lift in the mids.
 

Inner Space

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Recipe for perfect home audio:
1. Select speakers with the flattest FR and lowest distortion possible, in the form factor that suits your application.
2. Supplement with 1-4 subs, as needed, for proper bass extension.
3. Select amplification (if passive speakers) to allow 10x wattage than your highest typical SPL to ensure dynamics with SINAD at good as you can afford (distortion will jump at the dynamic points so don’t assume "inaudible" at normal SPL will cover dynamic moments).
4. Apply digital (and in extreme cases, physical) room correction.
5. Select a source with at least -96 dB SINAD and flat FR to ensure audible transparency to any recording.
6. Apply personal EQ to taste - yes, some masters are inadequate. Don’t suffer bad cooking just to be ascetic!

Good recipe, except that doesn't #4 cancel #1? In other words, you're selecting speakers with the flattest possible FR, then deliberately making them no longer the flattest possible. Wouldn't it be just as efficient to start with any random FR?

I would reverse your #4 - apply physical room treatment, with digital only in extreme cases. A room mode is not an acoustic amplification of the signal. It's a big, dumb, harmonically bereft hoot. Using digital correction to knock modes down, you're hearing bass note, bass note, dumb (but quieter) hoot, bass note, etc. Is that hi-fi?
 

krabapple

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No, because 'flattest possible' in an an anaechoic chamber/Klippel means the speakers add minimal coloration to the input audio. It does not mean the output will be 'flat' at your listening position in your room, because your room also adds coloration.

You apply #4 to deal with that. That's why he refers to it as *room* correction.
 

Inner Space

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No, because 'flattest possible' in an an anaechoic chamber/Klippel means the speakers add minimal coloration to the input audio. It does not mean the output will be 'flat' at your listening position in your room, because your room also adds coloration.

You apply #4 to deal with that. That's why he refers to it as *room* correction.

That's what I said. He starts with "flattest possible" and changes it to "not flattest possible". Why not start with "not flattest possible"? Could be that the room correction makes the direct sound flatter, by coincidence. If you're focussed on how the FR ends up, why worry about how it starts?
 

MattHooper

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Some people want to hear the sound of the recording.
Some people want to hear the sound of the equipment.
I'm in the first camp. Most enthusiasts IME (maybe not on this site though) are in the latter camp.
Personally I feel being in the latter camp is a fundamental error of approach. But a man must make his own decisions and live with them.

Everyone here wants to hear the sound of their equipment. It's why people are on forums like this; you care about the sound quality of your system
much more than the average person who "just cares about the music."
 

daftcombo

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It is possible that your speakers are flat but, in room, have a dip in the 100Hz-200hz region that makes the music boring, whereas if you had speakers with a hump there, it would be better.
 

MediumRare

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That's what I said. He starts with "flattest possible" and changes it to "not flattest possible". Why not start with "not flattest possible"? Could be that the room correction makes the direct sound flatter, by coincidence. If you're focussed on how the FR ends up, why worry about how it starts?
@krabapple is correct for several reasons. Among them, speakers that are not flat often are not flat because of a problen such as a resonance. So best to avoid that. Also, a dip in the speaker FR can be quite hard to fix. There are more reasons. So, net, easier to eliminate speaker issues by making a good initial choice and then focus on the remaining room corrections afterwards.
 

MediumRare

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It is possible that your speakers are flat but, in room, have a dip in the 100Hz-200hz region that makes the music boring, whereas if you had speakers with a hump there, it would be better.
It would be nice to win the lottery, but the chances of having the exact speaker in the exact location to compensate for the exact room mode is even less likely.
 
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