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Abyss Diana V2 Review (headphone)

xup

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It's likely not winning any multi-listener high end blind shootouts. The key there is "multi-listener", though, as it's highly likely some individuals will still prefer it. Perhaps you're one of those individuals :).
I'm not sure we have enough data to say that.
I'll explain. A lot of people love vinyl (as an example), and would prefer it in a blind test (I would assume since it's hard to not hear the difference). This might be a distortion that many people would like or find nice. Tubes could be another example.
Of course, to test this properly we would need a double blind test or as close as we could which would be extremely complicated to do. People will have to not see or touch any of the headphones so they don't "recognize" them, etc.. Basically, it's a mess.
But I would also not claim that "this is the bestest sound in the world and everyone MUsT lOVe iTttTTtt!!!"
 

richard12511

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If someone listens to a home theater system with a disconnected subwoofer, says it has no subbass, then measures it as such, would you say that it is correct to conclude that this system is incapable of producing subbass?
If the subwoofer has so much trouble turning on that you often end up watching movies without it, then "Yes", it's correct to measure the system with it off. The parallel here is that this headphone obviously has major issues getting a good seal on both the measurement rigs and actual human heads(unless you apply constant clamping force like other reviewers). Thus, it's perfectly correct to measure it as such, as that's likely how it will sound to most consumers.
 

acbarn

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Not if you knew he is cutting and pasting my answers in this thread elsewhere and ridiculing us for it.
It always puzzles me when people get so self-identified with their gear, whether it’s audio, cameras, watches, whatever. They get upset when they find out their cherished gear is not all it’s cracked up to be, and instead of blaming the manufacturer who sold them a bill of goods, they attack the messenger. It’s baffling.
 
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mshenay

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I didn't save them.

Do you use voice recognition on your phone? It works most of the time, doesn't it? As "incomplete" as that may be in understanding you, it is quite useful and powerful advance in computing. Same here. If you are waiting for 100%, then I don't have the answer for you.
I do and it's... sufficient. Despite people having little to no issues understanding me Google Voice is some what underwhelming... the irony is I likely spend as much time correcting talk to text
Why are you asking me about his measurements? Is it because you think his are closer to the truth? If so, why? What is the truth about that headphone? I asked earlier about how he measured the headphone and I have yet to see an explanation of that. So not sure why you are trusting his data without any such back up.

For now, his graph is very smoothed. Compare his to mine:


You can certainly make things visually look a lot better by smoothing, averaging or both. I have spent considerable amount of time developing these graphs to balance ease of readability but not at the expense of detail we need.

Now, I can certainly use a different fixture and or put artificial pressure on the headphone to get whatever you want in bass. As I have repeatedly explained, I am not going to do that to create prettier pictures. If I cannot correlate the measurements with EQ verification and what I am hearing, it is not valid in my book. If all you need is a measurement that makes a headphone/manufacturer look good, you need to look elsewhere.

This is on top of you asking me to compare and comment on measurement of another model than what I have tested. The Phi is not the same as Diana V2. Heck, even if he had Diana V2, his sample may be different than mine. As I keep saying, I am not here to justify other people's measurements. Go and challenge him as you are doing me and let's see where you end up.
I acknowledged I quoted the wrong model but you keep running around not wanting to disclose how you've measured these... funny thing I've met a LOT of these guys at shows over the years. Spoken with them and asked many of the same questions I've asked you. The difference is their excitement and enthusiasm to talk about not just their results BUT also the process...

Their excited to share their results but also discuss how they got there and how they were able to get consistent data and a lot of times there was sharing within the community on how every one could be better...

Yet here you are, more or less a stranger to me. Some one I've never seen at any of the high end shows which maybe I just missed ya as I've no idea what you look like in real life, but your also some one who I haven't seen post any where but here... An out of the blue your posting headphone measurements without any desire to talk about the process? Just intent focus on YOUR results... and resistance to have any discussion about how you came to get these results... Heck even Jude him self has made an extensive effort to discuss process the head honcho of THE headphone website

I dunno there's just a lack of transparency, but you have your reasons I have no more desire or interest to question you. Thank you for your time and attention thus far
 
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IMG_5460a.jpg


Looking at the Diana pads, it's hard to see how they would seal against a flat surface like on the microphone rig. The edges of the pads are contoured and there is no angle at which they are flat. Abyss' pads are designed to sit flush without any excessive clamping pressure against a human head, not a flat measurement device. The AB-1266 has no clamp at all and seals against your head without the slightest bit of pressure.
 
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I do and it's... sufficient. Despite people having little to no issues understanding me Google Voice is some what underwhelming... the irony is I likely spend as much time correcting talk to text


I acknowledged I quoted the wrong model but you keep running around not wanting to disclose how you've measured these... funny thing I've met a LOT of these guys at shows over the years. Spoken with them and asked many of the same questions I've asked you. The difference is their excitement and enthusiasm to talk about not just their results BUT also the process...

Their excited to share their results but also discuss how they got there and how they were able to get consistent data and a lot of times there was sharing within the community on how every one could be better...

Yet here you are, more or less a stranger to me. Some one I've never seen at any of the high end shows which maybe I just missed ya as I've no idea what you look like in real life, but your also some one who I haven't seen post any where but here... An out of the blue your posting headphone measurements without any desire to talk about the process? Just intent focus on YOUR results... and resistance to have any discussion about how you came to get these results... Heck even Jude him self has made an extensive effort to discuss process the head honcho of THE headphone website

I dunno there's just a lack of transparency, but you have your reasons I have no more desire or interest to question you. Thank you for your time and attention thus far
I don't know what you've been reading or maybe you're sleep deprived, but Amir talks a lot about his process. A LOT. He actively engages with this community all the time.

It's weird how you've been here for three years and you still don't know anything about this place.
 
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Really? What is your reference for "fairly low?" Distortion there at 94 dB ranges from 4 to 6% in mid to high frequencies. Here it is in absolute scale:



That peak at around 5.6 kHz is only 35 dB lower than the fundamental. That is your entire distortion-free range, i.e. less than 6 dB!

Note also how the peak in distortion coincides with peaking in frequency response as well. This means that we don't just have distortion there but that it is so loud that it is changing the tonality of the headphone! This points to a defect in design which should have been caught and fixed.

But let's say you are right. You don't pay $3,000 for a headphone to have "fairly low distortion." You paying extra to get the pinnacle of fidelity. Not this.

Anyway, my goal is to show the true capabilities of headphones. It is up to you to decide what is good enough for you. But please don't say this kind of performance should be good enough for us. It definitely is not.
In the previous graph it looks like the 94 dB graph is below 1% for most of the frequency range. I'm assuming your measurement was done in a dead quiet lab environment. It wouldn't surprise me if it distorted so much since Abyss themselves have said that they do not rely on measurements when designing headphones.

I provided a measurement of my Stax on my head with flat bass extension to below 20hz, which you dismissed because it is not on a proper measurement rig. I often listen to things like Lorn on my 404LE, which has fundamentals at 35hz and would sound completely wrong if the bass response was as you described. I also get very satisfying bass on tracks such as Life by Runhild Gammelsæter, which has a 25hz rumble.

You seem to be ignoring the possibility that both measurements and listening impressions can be non-representative at the same time. If someone listens to a home theater system with a disconnected subwoofer, says it has no subbass, then measures it as such, would you say that it is correct to conclude that this system is incapable of producing subbass?
As we've seen in the Stax energizer measurements thread, the energizer that you use can oddly influence the amount of bass you're getting from your earspeakers. That's the one thing that makes me not want to consider Stax as a future headphone purchase.
 
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If the subwoofer has so much trouble turning on that you often end up watching movies without it, then "Yes", it's correct to measure the system with it off. The parallel here is that this headphone obviously has major issues getting a good seal on both the measurement rigs and actual human heads(unless you apply constant clamping force like other reviewers). Thus, it's perfectly correct to measure it as such, as that's likely how it will sound to most consumers.
You should be able to get sufficient seal without additional clamping force, from just the pads sealing to your oily skin, else you would notice a difference in bass when you press the lambdas on, which you definitely do not.
 

bluefuzz

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But still, I can't figure out how it all adds up.
A contributing factor is, perhaps, that both Bruel & Kjær and GRAS HQs are situated a few kilometres from each other (not far from where I live) in one of the most expensive parts of Denmark – one of the most expensive countries in the world. Danish engineers are expensive! DPA microphones are just down the road, and Purifi 20 km the other way. Danish gear is never cheap and these devices are the best of the best ...
 

SmackDaddies

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View attachment 105996

Looking at the Diana pads, it's hard to see how they would seal against a flat surface like on the microphone rig. The edges of the pads are contoured and there is no angle at which they are flat. Abyss' pads are designed to sit flush without any excessive clamping pressure against a human head, not a flat measurement device. The AB-1266 has no clamp at all and seals against your head without the slightest bit of pressure.
damn those look dead sexy
 

vault108

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In my opinion, a lot of people get sub-bass and mid-bass mixed up which lead to a lot of incorrect information. Sub-bass is low frequency under 60Hz which you feel more than heard because the mid-bass sound will drown out the sub-bass sound. You feel sub-bass when the low frequency resonates down your body and you feel the rumble in your chest or lower body. Mid-bass rumble is more in the sides of your head. Too much upper-bass you you’ll feel the rumble in the top of your head.

I’ve done a lot of earphones and headphones measurement for own EQ’ing and I’ve seen both sides of flat sub-bass frequency response and roll-off sub-bass frequency response. I normally get flat sub-bass response in headphones when I add pressure to the cups with a band. This also move the drivers closer to the mic. I too see roll-off sub-bass frequency response my in headphones without add pressure, especially in electrostatic head phones. Electrostatic headphones are not known for their sub-bass.

Lastly, people are focusing too much on the roll-off sub-bass in the measurement and not the main problems which amirm point out why he doesn’t recommend this headphone, which is the distortion, treble, and no overhead for EQ’ing.
 

bunkbail

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Lastly, people are focusing too much on the roll-off sub-bass in the measurement and not the main problems which amirm point out why he doesn’t recommend this headphone, which is the distortion, treble, and no overhead for EQ’ing.
Yeah lol. Almost all of the criticism towards this review on here and also on reddit are about the subbass roll off. Amir's main talking point was the distortion in the midrange, which I think pathetic for a $3000 pair of headphones.
 
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In my opinion, a lot of people get sub-bass and mid-bass mixed up which lead to a lot of incorrect information. Sub-bass is low frequency under 60Hz which you feel more than heard because the mid-bass sound will drown out the sub-bass sound. You feel sub-bass when the low frequency resonates down your body and you feel the rumble in your chest or lower body. Mid-bass rumble is more in the sides of your head. Too much upper-bass you you’ll feel the rumble in the top of your head.

I’ve done a lot of earphones and headphones measurement for own EQ’ing and I’ve seen both sides of flat sub-bass frequency response and roll-off sub-bass frequency response. I normally get flat sub-bass response in headphones when I add pressure to the cups with a band. This also move the drivers closer to the mic. I too see roll-off sub-bass frequency response my in headphones without add pressure, especially in electrostatic head phones. Electrostatic headphones are not known for their sub-bass.

Lastly, people are focusing too much on the roll-off sub-bass in the measurement and not the main problems which amirm point out why he doesn’t recommend this headphone, which is the distortion, treble, and no overhead for EQ’ing.
the reason it matters with electrostatics specifically is, that without seal they do not function correctly, which leads to the entire measurement being incorrect
 

richard12511

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You should be able to get sufficient seal without additional clamping force, from just the pads sealing to your oily skin, else you would notice a difference in bass when you press the lambdas on, which you definitely do not.
"Should" will depend on the person, obviously Amir wasn't able to get them to seal on his head. Hence why the unsealed measurements correlated better with what he heard. I often have trouble getting a good seal, so I'm sure I'd having trouble getting these to seal as well.
 
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"Should" will depend on the person, obviously Amir wasn't able to get them to seal on his head. Hence why the unsealed measurements correlated better with what he heard. I often have trouble getting a good seal, so I'm sure I'd having trouble getting these to seal as well.
You have to remember that the bass on stats sounds very different to a dyna or a planar. The bass distortion is low enough to make the bass not feel as "meaty", hence why so many people claim stax have no bass, because the "bass presence" isn't there
 
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You have to remember that the bass on stats sounds very different to a dyna or a planar. The bass distortion is low enough to make the bass not feel as "meaty", hence why so many people claim stax have no bass, because the "bass presence" isn't there
I thought totl planars have similar bass distortion to that of the stax?
This is off my memory from innerfidelity charts.
Many years ago, someone also measured an lcd-2 to have super low distortion, but this could have been a pre fazor unicorn.
The Lcd-x bass distortion measurements from Amir were quite good and had plenty of spl.
I've heard the older stax some of which do sub bass well
 
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