Absolutely Preposterous Denafrips DAC Reviews

[egellings]

I do not understand.


I'm fine with this approach with two caveats: Don't make up nonsense to justify that this equipment sounds "better" just because you prefer it, and don't spend a down payment on a house to get mediocre performance when you can get the same for $500.

"Better" is in the ear of the beholder, if perceived sound is what's being considered. It's important that said ear has had a chance to hear sound from competently qualified (accurate, low distortion) equipment first. It would be best if the listener could switch between the well spec'd piece and the poorer spec'd one, at matched volume levels. It might just be that the listener may not be able to tell the difference between the two pieces, if the poorer spec'd one is not too shabby. No need to pay a premium for the better piece if the poorer one satisfies the listener. Why order a drop forge when all you want is a tack hammer?

 

[kemmler3D]

These self-styled audiophile seekers after perfection want the entire process to be a mystical journey and an ardous spiritual quest on which they must spare no expense

Indeed, think about how cool it would be to believe in that.

Rather than being a mere consumer of audio equipment with average ears, you become a skilled practitioner of the listening arts, with highly-trained, highly sensitive, golden ears, honed by years of listening to only the finest audio equipment. Not only can you clearly hear tiny differences in audio equipment (that losers like us on ASR say) shouldn't even be there, but you're confident that your ears can hear what even the best science can't define or measure. You're basically a wizard, for the mere price of a few overpriced DACs, amps, and cables. I get the appeal. It's a way of contributing and creating something truly excellent, at least in their minds.

The amount of ego that is invested can't allow the possibility that you (just like every other human being on the planet) are affected by expectation bias / placebo, and what you've been using to inflate your self-worth (and deflate your bank account) is a mere illusion.

It is no joke to say that people have sacrificed their very lives for less plausible stories than the stories they tell themselves in subjectivist land. It should come as no surprise that a handful of graphs (no matter how well founded and consistent) do nothing to deter them.

 

[antcollinet]

"Better" is in the ear of the beholder, if perceived sound is what's being considered. It's important that said ear has had a chance to hear sound from competently qualified (accurate, low distortion) equipment first. It would be best if the listener could switch between the well spec'd piece and the poorer spec'd one, at matched volume levels. It might just be that the listener may not be able to tell the difference between the two pieces, if the poorer spec'd one is not too shabby. No need to pay a premium for the better piece if the poorer one satisfies the listener. Why order a drop forge when all you want is a tack hammer?

Except you've got it the wrong way round. Generally these people are paying a (huge) premium for the poorer performing kit.

 

[WireWoundResistor]

Yes, twisted is the best approach. But even with a flat "ribbon", if that's all you have to work with, you still get some rejection in the far field.

Why one would untwist a cable though...don't know.

I have some "flat" ethernet cables (for tight fits, not for "audiophile" reasons) and I can guarantee you, they are still twisted pair cables. I've had to cut them a few times and crimp on new plugs. They are all twisted pair cables, they have to be, there are regulations for that kind of thing.

 

[fpitas]

I have some "flat" ethernet cables (for tight fits, not for "audiophile" reasons) and I can guarantee you, they are still twisted pair cables. I've had to cut them a few times and crimp on new plugs. They are all twisted pair cables, they have to be, there are regulations for that kind of thing.

I believe you. But then who knows what some goofy audiophile snake oil company will do, if they can get the cables dirt-cheap and resell them for thousands. It really seems the stupider the stuff is, the more fervent the believers are.

 

[Astoneroad]

I believe you. But then who knows what some goofy audiophile snake oil company will do, if they can get the cables dirt-cheap and resell them for thousands. It really seems the stupider the stuff is, the more fervent the believers are.

 

[WireWoundResistor]

I believe you. But then who knows what some goofy audiophile snake oil company will do, if they can get the cables dirt-cheap and resell them for thousands. It really seems the stupider the stuff is, the more fervent the believers are.

Yes, unfortunately this is the world we live in.

 

[Astoneroad]

Yes, unfortunately this is the world we live in.

Nothing has changed... ignorance exploited for power and money... the Bonfire of the Vanities has never been extinguished.

 

[fpitas]

Nothing has changed... ignorance exploited for power and money... the Bonfire of the Vanities has never been extinguished.

One big (rather sad) difference is that now there is little excuse. Once upon a time, only the very wealthy had access to knowledge. That is no longer true.

 

[SuicideSquid]

I have some "flat" ethernet cables (for tight fits, not for "audiophile" reasons) and I can guarantee you, they are still twisted pair cables. I've had to cut them a few times and crimp on new plugs. They are all twisted pair cables, they have to be, there are regulations for that kind of thing.

I'm glad to hear that but also, I guarantee the $2,000 flat ethernet "audiophile" cables are not complying with any regulations.

Look at all the dangerous non-compliant power cables there are floating around out there in audiophile land.

 

[kemmler3D]

It really seems the stupider the stuff is, the more fervent the believers are.

I think this is no coincidence. In order to believe something very stupid, you need lots of emotion to override your capacity for rationality. This is why you don't find anyone who just casually accepts the idea that the earth is flat and moves on with their lives. It always (indeed, must) become part of their personality, anyone who doesn't DEEPLY care can't sustain something that stupid in their minds, the truth will creep in and dissolve the idea.

Believing something that dumb has to rise to the level of a serious axe to grind, or even your primary hobby.

 

[ahofer]

Regarding 'the stupider, the more believers', in-group loyalty demonstration has always been my go-to explanation:

Beware Inward Apologetics

Beware oft-rehearsed but rarely-performed arguments on why-our-group-is-right: Recently I came across a quotation that expressed, with wonderful clarity, something that I kind of half-knew but had not articulated so well to myself. The historian John P. Meier …:

www.overcomingbias.com

We can signal loyalty to a group by showing our confidence in its beliefs. And our ability to offer many reasonable arguments for its beliefs suggests such confidence. But sometimes we can show even stronger loyalty by showing a willingness to embrace unreasonable arguments for our group’s beliefs. Someone who supports a group because he thinks it has reasonable supporting arguments might well desert that group should he find better arguments against it. Someone willing to embrace unreasonable arguments for his group shows a willingness to continue supporting them no matter which way the argument winds blow.

 

[BikeSmith60]

On the contrary, we know exactly how they sound - the same as any other DAC over $150 or so. That's sort of the point of a DAC... to change bits into continuous voltages without doing anything besides that. There isn't a "sound" involved in that process unless something is going wrong.

It's probably a good thing that preposterously ridiculous comments aren't lethal to one's health.

 

[fpitas]

It's probably a good thing that preposterously ridiculous comments aren't lethal to one's health.

True, although we need an "Uh huh" reply chatbot around here to save time and irritation.

 

[antcollinet]

It's probably a good thing that preposterously ridiculous comments aren't lethal to one's health.

It is.

You should be particularly gratefull

 

[egellings]

Except you've got it the wrong way round. Generally these people are paying a (huge) premium for the poorer performing kit.

True.

 

[SuicideSquid]

It's probably a good thing that preposterously ridiculous comments aren't lethal to one's health.

Are you saying it's ridiculous to assert there are differences between properly-functioning DACs, or ridiculous to assert that there aren't? I'm having trouble parsing this comment.