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Absolute Polarity - Myth or "Important"?

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Thomas_A

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The important feature is an asymmetric waveform.
 

solderdude

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trying to create some test files (see my next post)
 
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antcollinet

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attached 2 small excerpts from Procal Harum one normal, one phase inverted.

Unzip and you end up with 2 very short MP3 files
I can't detect any difference between those two.
 

solderdude

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Yep they were the same :facepalm:... trying to do it right this time and verified before posting

See ZIP file with screenshot showing the inversion.
 

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Thomas_A

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Thomas_A

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Not hearing anything with these either. Listening through speakers.
Try headphones, different volumes. Listen for timbre. First file should sound like "dem-dum-dem-dum-dem-dum". The other file starts flipped "dum-dem-dum-dem".
 

antcollinet

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Try headphones, different volumes. Listen for timbre. First file should sound like "dem-dum-dem-dum-dem-dum". The other file starts flipped "dum-dem-dum-dem".
I don't have headphones. In any case, if the effect is so subtle that I can't hear it with speakers, I'm not going to worry about it.


EDIT: weird if I say "dum dem dum dem" in my head, that is what I hear. But if I say "dum dum dum" or "dem dem dem" that is what I hear also.

Clear cognitive bias in my case.
 

Thomas_A

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I don't have headphones. In any case, if the effect is so subtle that I can't hear it with speakers, I'm not going to worry about it.
Thats all fine. It was a suggestion - once heard through headphones, you can also much easier track it on speakers. It is quite audible using my built-in laptop speakers, but without knowing what to listen for, it would probably be hard. Solderdudes example would probably be impossible to detect IMO. You need bass signals that are asymmetric to detect anything.
 

Thomas_A

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I don't have headphones. In any case, if the effect is so subtle that I can't hear it with speakers, I'm not going to worry about it.


EDIT: weird if I say "dum dem dum dem" in my head, that is what I hear. But if I say "dum dum dum" or "dem dem dem" that is what I hear also.

Clear cognitive bias in my case.
Yes, that is why it is good to have ABX:

 

threni

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I don't have headphones. In any case, if the effect is so subtle that I can't hear it with speakers, I'm not going to worry about it.


EDIT: weird if I say "dum dem dum dem" in my head, that is what I hear. But if I say "dum dum dum" or "dem dem dem" that is what I hear also.

Clear cognitive bias in my case.
 

Thomas_A

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Here is another file I tested. Bass from an Alison Kraus record.
Skärmavbild 2022-05-26 kl. 14.47.31.png


The waveform:
Skärmavbild 2022-05-26 kl. 14.50.07.png
 

Thomas_A

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Holmz

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I have no idea but I prefer the darker-sounding ones.

At least the title having “myth or important”, seems to be somewhat answered here.
So in a sense, it almost doesn’t matter which one is right… in the context of accurately being able to tell a difference.

i.e. there is a difference.
 

600_OHM

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Solderdude et al - wow, thanks man. You really went above and beyond. So thank you for doing this.

I heard NO difference whatsoever between the normal and inverted. None.

I must have a/b 100 times, and intimately familiar with this track and it's timing being a staple of mine. No difference.

I tried my 3 stablemates, the AKG 240, the 712, and the Senn 650's. NO difference.

And get this - I *knew* there would be a chart of something in the png file, so I didn't want to look at that first for any bias. I looked at that last after I gave up.

I even know what to look for (disregarding FR differences) and can focus my concentration. Shut down one of my senses with eyes closed. No difference on any of the cans.

Even with short clips, because I'm so familiar with the track, I thought I might be able to pick up even the slightest "hint". But again, no difference.

Thank you again for that test. Honestly, I couldn't tell any difference even though I was eager to do so.
 

Holmz

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Solderdude et al - wow, thanks man. You really went above and beyond. So thank you for doing this.

I heard NO difference whatsoever between the normal and inverted. None.

I must have a/b 100 times, and intimately familiar with this track and it's timing being a staple of mine. No difference.

I tried my 3 stablemates, the AKG 240, the 712, and the Senn 650's. NO difference.

And get this - I *knew* there would be a chart of something in the png file, so I didn't want to look at that first for any bias. I looked at that last after I gave up.

I even know what to look for (disregarding FR differences) and can focus my concentration. Shut down one of my senses with eyes closed. No difference on any of the cans.

Even with short clips, because I'm so familiar with the track, I thought I might be able to pick up even the slightest "hint". But again, no difference.

Thank you again for that test. Honestly, I couldn't tell any difference even though I was eager to do so.

Anecdotally, I have heard that not everyone is sensitive to phase/polarity.
 

600_OHM

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Yeah, I consider myself to be one, but only with metallic (or glass, high energy etc) instruments.

This test however I could perceive no difference at all. I wanted to show my superhuman auditory ability, but sadly no. :)

OT: maybe there's something fried in my brain that makes me concede that after decades, my preference is dome tweeters for speakers. Discussed elsewhere ...
 

Thomas_A

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Solderdude et al - wow, thanks man. You really went above and beyond. So thank you for doing this.

I heard NO difference whatsoever between the normal and inverted. None.

I must have a/b 100 times, and intimately familiar with this track and it's timing being a staple of mine. No difference.

I tried my 3 stablemates, the AKG 240, the 712, and the Senn 650's. NO difference.

And get this - I *knew* there would be a chart of something in the png file, so I didn't want to look at that first for any bias. I looked at that last after I gave up.

I even know what to look for (disregarding FR differences) and can focus my concentration. Shut down one of my senses with eyes closed. No difference on any of the cans.

Even with short clips, because I'm so familiar with the track, I thought I might be able to pick up even the slightest "hint". But again, no difference.

Thank you again for that test. Honestly, I couldn't tell any difference even though I was eager to do so.
Solderdudes file does not contain the necessary asymmetric bass waveforms to be audible, so in essence flipping that file will be inaudible.
 
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