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About to take the plunge and looking for last minute Valve amp suggestions.

SIY

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Very nice, but way above my price point.

There's good reliable tube amps. There's inexpensive tube amps. There's no good, reliable, inexpensive tube amps.

Exception: unless you can design and build your own, in which case you wouldn't be asking that question. :D
 

DSJR

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Primaluna amps have very high output impedance which acts as a graphic equaliser into typical speaker loads. Having owned and used Epos ES14's extensively with valve amps in th epast (once owning Tube Technology Genesis mono amps which thrashed mercilessly a quad of EL34's to 100W each for under a year before the output valves wore out [should have bought EAR 509's which were the same price then and new small car money now] and also fully rebuilt and gloriously charming Quad II's into these speakers), I think the ES14 is ok in terms of response alterations with valve gear.

Seriously though, all that hum, noise and added colouration, especially in the bass, but I suppose we all have to go through it at some point... For low power, the Quad VA1 was huge fun if not driven too hard :D - and it may well hold some value too...

I still have custody of the Quad II's, but they're ornaments really and only come out to play very occasionally, just to make sure they still work...
 

mhardy6647

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There's good reliable tube amps. There's inexpensive tube amps. There's no good, reliable, inexpensive tube amps.

Exception: unless you can design and build your own, in which case you wouldn't be asking that question. :D
(emphasis added)

... although, in fairness, there are kits, which sort of split the difference -- as long as one can follow instructions* and one knows, or can learn, how to solder**.
_______________________
* still a developement area for me :facepalm:

** Pro tip: just because it's a stock image available for purchase doesn't mean it represents a good idea. :facepalm:

1623933814681.png
[/QUOTE]
 
OP
S

Silgalias

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Primaluna amps have very high output impedance which acts as a graphic equaliser into typical speaker loads. Having owned and used Epos ES14's extensively with valve amps in th epast (once owning Tube Technology Genesis mono amps which thrashed mercilessly a quad of EL34's to 100W each for under a year before the output valves wore out [should have bought EAR 509's which were the same price then and new small car money now] and also fully rebuilt and gloriously charming Quad II's into these speakers), I think the ES14 is ok in terms of response alterations with valve gear.

Seriously though, all that hum, noise and added colouration, especially in the bass, but I suppose we all have to go through it at some point... For low power, the Quad VA1 was huge fun if not driven too hard :D - and it may well hold some value too...

I still have custody of the Quad II's, but they're ornaments really and only come out to play very occasionally, just to make sure they still work...

It is quite possible that I have just caught a bad case of nostalgia cooped up here in lockdown. :D
 

_thelaughingman

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(emphasis added)

... although, in fairness, there are kits, which sort of split the difference -- as long as one can follow instructions* and one knows, or can learn, how to solder**.
_______________________
* still a developement area for me :facepalm:

** Pro tip: just because it's a stock image available for purchase doesn't mean it represents a good idea. :facepalm:

View attachment 136143
[/QUOTE]
Boy that soldering iron must have built in solder wire. SMH
 

mhardy6647

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It is quite possible that I have just caught a bad case of nostalgia cooped up here in lockdown. :D
meh. I still likes me some vacuum tube amplification -- euphonic distortion or otherwise. :)
Triodes are, as it happens, extremely linear amplification devices when used at the proper operating points in an amplifier circuit.

Oh, since I mentioned the 6EM7:
1623934375566.png

source: https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/6/6EM7.pdf
Do note that the heater current requirement for this tube is higher than the 6SL7 or 6SN7 (even though they are kinda, sorta interchangeable).
 

Midwest Blade

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It is quite possible that I have just caught a bad case of nostalgia cooped up here in lockdown. :D

Quite easy to understand, been through the same issue but focused on beefing up my collection of jazz cd's instead of hardware.
 
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raindance

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meh. I still likes me some vacuum tube amplification -- euphonic distortion or otherwise. :)
Triodes are, as it happens, extremely linear amplification devices when used at the proper operating points in an amplifier circuit.
Extremely linear when the amp is competently designed, and if so, almost indistinguishable from good solid state.... However, most tube amp designers like to leave out useful stuff like negative feedback and other linearity measures and they also seem to like designing amps with great gobs of gain (likely due to the absence of negative feedback) that allow you an 1/8 of a turn on the volume knob before clipping if you are lucky.

Of course the massive gain makes you think the amp is really powerful because it goes loud quickly :facepalm:

This will probably be an unpopular statement, but the most popular "tubey-sounding" amps are likely poor designs that mostly are run in a clipping condition with typical insensitive speakers. Also the ones with high output impedance sound the tubiest (if that is a word) if your speakers have impedance dips and peaks at the right points to provide a pleasing interaction.
 

DSJR

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It is quite possible that I have just caught a bad case of nostalgia cooped up here in lockdown. :D

We all go through it at some time or other and for various reasons and with careful choices, much fun can be had.. I suppose I should say that such amps if well chosen can be the fun side of the hobby - a bit like the better vintage cars out there...

Apologies for going at valve amps like a reformed smoker who now hates the habit, but I've had valve amp urges twice now (first time was in 1976-77 when nobody wanted to service them - Quad and Radford) and the second in the late 80's (Croft and Tube Technology with an ARC SP14 preamp too which is a FET line stage from memory). I suppose vibes like mine may well be expected here on ASR, but certainly with the ES14's, a nice valve amp can enchant the ears and hang the SINAD :D

In the UK, you could try to look out Icon Audio amps as sometimes, bargains can be had. The baby is a bit soggy sounding I recall, but the mid level integrated, preferably a later one with copper top plate, may be affordable used and *subjectively* I thought them very nice indeed. The Quad VA1 was a baby version iof that 'sound' I seem to remember - hell I miss not being so involved these days...
 

MakeMineVinyl

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http://jelabsarch.blogspot.com/2012/06/je-labs-simple-452a3.html

The original design specifies 6SL7 for the driver (voltage amp). The driver circuit's wiring has been modified on this particular to accept a broader range of twin triode base 8BD tubes, specifically to allow use of the 6EM7.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/je-labs-2a3-amplifier.86502/#post-922727
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-je-labs-angela-se-2a3-amp-done-my-way.112767/
This is the same amplifier I have, built by my friend & hifi colleague Nate ("Redboy" at AK and other fora).
I also have a pair of Bottlehead Paramour SE 2A3 "monoblocks" - built from kits by my kids & I many years back.
Thanks!
 

MakeMineVinyl

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http://web.archive.org/web/20060618122016/http://www.angela.com/catalog/how-to/SE.2A3.html

Be advised that zero feedback, single stage amplifiers demand robust and stable power supplies. If it's a first time build, caution is advised.

They also have frequency response limitations, distort abruptly and require high sensitivity loudspeakers to sound best.

In my opinion there is nothing in contemporary playback to rival the sense of immediacy in close micc'd acoustic recordings of a Direct Heated Triode paired with a well made broad band (large) paper driver and large horn.

That said, it's an enormous PITA to get there.


I'm doubtful any of the inexpensive amps mentioned above will satisfy.

If you *must* have tubes, the excellent kits from Bob Latino at Tubes4hifi
have good support after the sale and an thriving community of enthusiasts.

Some of the designs have a "triode emulation" feature that gets close to what a genuine triode can do with music.

http://tubes4hifi.com/
I already use a SET amplifier which is using 2A3s, and it has a massive external power supply, since my HF horns (with active crossover) are very efficient and any noise upstream is readily heard. I was interested in that schematic mostly because I like to see what other people are doing.
 

raindance

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The EL34 based Icon Audio amp I had when I lived in the UK was supposedly based on a Dynaco. It was inoffensive but a bit of a bassless wonder, probably due to the use of very cheap transformers. The Yarland copy of the Sophia SET Music (which is a decent amp) sounded a lot fuller.
 

Jim Matthews

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I already use a SET amplifier which is using 2A3s, and it has a massive external power supply, since my HF horns (with active crossover) are very efficient and any noise upstream is readily heard. I was interested in that schematic mostly because I like to see what other people are doing.
My bad, I thought I was answering the OP.

I most definitely lost track.
 

JeffS7444

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So I thought before I invest my oh so hard to get £££ I would give one last call to the folks here to see if anyone can come up with a better alternative?
Yes and you will hate it: Save your money until you can afford something good! If you are willing to try some DIY, Elekit offers high quality kits, and because you put it together yourself, if something goes wrong, you will probably have a pretty good clue about how to fix it.

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/kits/elekit-audio-kits/tu-8100.html

And from Pete Millett, a more advanced project, advanced in the sense that there are no step-by-step assembly instructions, and it's up to the builder to source the chassis and various parts:

http://pmillett.com/Jonokuchi.htm

Jonokuchi is an interesting design because it's designer has a sense of what people want when they say they want to experience tubes, and it uses fairly inexpensive parts to achieve it.

As for 300B tubes: I like them, they have a real classic look to them, and if you buy "mesh plate" tubes, they have a pretty dramatic glow too, yet the glass envelopes don't get super hot. I think I got around 7 years of life out of a set of Electro-Harmonix 300Bs. The most failure-prone tube for me was the 5AR4 rectifier, and I would just as soon avoid all tube rectifiers in the future.
 

preload

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(emphasis added)

... although, in fairness, there are kits, which sort of split the difference -- as long as one can follow instructions* and one knows, or can learn, how to solder**.
_______________________
* still a developement area for me :facepalm:

** Pro tip: just because it's a stock image available for purchase doesn't mean it represents a good idea. :facepalm:

View attachment 136143
[/QUOTE]

I guess that's how you get "cold" solder joints.
 

sergeauckland

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:eek:
(emphasis added)

... although, in fairness, there are kits, which sort of split the difference -- as long as one can follow instructions* and one knows, or can learn, how to solder**.
_______________________
* still a developement area for me :facepalm:

** Pro tip: just because it's a stock image available for purchase doesn't mean it represents a good idea. :facepalm:

View attachment 136143
[/QUOTE]
Wow, look what she's holding!:eek:
S
 

mhardy6647

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...
And from Pete Millett, a more advanced project, advanced in the sense that there are no step-by-step assembly instructions, and it's up to the builder to source the chassis and various parts:

http://pmillett.com/Jonokuchi.htm

Jonokuchi is an interesting design because it's designer has a sense of what people want when they say they want to experience tubes, and it uses fairly inexpensive parts to achieve it.
...
Pete Millett is a wonderful resource for the DIY community indeed.
Besides a long string of interesting and good quality designs he's shared with the great unwashed (i.e., folks like me) over the years, his companion documentation reference website http://www.tubebooks.org/index.html Between that site and https://worldradiohistory.com/ we have a library of outstanding technical resources (the latter one searchable) at our fingertips! :)
 
OP
S

Silgalias

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So after finally going with the Dared MP-5BT about a month ago I have to do a follow on post to say what a great experience it was buying this amp.
The service I received from Connie at Newsong, the Chinese distributor was the best ever. I got the amp at my door in the UK in 3 days.
The amp impressed me right out of the box. The look, the shiny, the versatility and functionality all excellent. I very quickly had it set up to my PC and my mobile, speakers and subwoofer, via the pre out.
I stream with Tidal and the MP-5BT handled my playlist of Jazz, Prog, Punk and Psychedelia incredibly well. I was really taken with the sound even before it warmed up. As it did things just got better. Soundstage and imaging are fantastic. even with a couple of my little Vieta 3 way satellites hooked up it sounded amazing.
As a headphone amp it is quiet a mouse in velvet slippers and drives everything I have thrown at it with ease.
I really love this little hybrid amp and I am going to have a hell of a hard time passing it on to my son as his university setup. But I have my eye on a Willsenton R8 to pair with some Borea BR03`s. Now all I have to do is convince the wife. :D
 
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