About to get a Motu M4, worried about all the Windows performance issue stories…

[kofman13]

Hi all. I currently use a focus rite Scarlett 2i2 1st gen I got almost 8 years ago. It lacks gain I need, I need 4 inputs these days, and my Scarlett has some faulty worn out knob issues. The M4 checks all the boxes for me. I would be teaching on zoom on my Mac with it. And then twitch streaming and producing in Ableton with it on Windows. I have found dozens upon dozens of posts and threads by windows users saying that the Motu M4 has terrible windows drivers and so many people have had nightmare experiences getting it to work on windows. Seeing as half the time I will be using it on a windows machine for paying pro audio work, that gets me really worried. But then at the same time half of those posts and threads have other windows users also chiming in saying it works fine for them… So I guess it seems like its just a gamble at this point if it will work on windows?

All the threads ive seen have been over a span of the last almost 1.5 years (some of which only 2 weeks ago) so I am hoping that the situation is better now with some updates for firmware/drivers from Motu? But then again these same threads say Motu is notoriously bad with window drivers? I just dont know who to listen to/trust. Anyone here with Motu M4 or M2 on windows? Good experience? Bad experience?

 

[sweetchaos]

That's why retailers offer a money-back period.
Just buy one and see for yourself.

Also, like anything you read online...people only talk about things when they're broken...and that percentage of people is usually 1%.
The rest (99%) don't talk about it, because they don't have problems.

 

[trl]

All the tests I've done were on Windows 10: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...analysis-and-few-in-house-measurements.17819/. In few months since I got it I had no issues on Windows 10 (several updates and SP were installed till then) and MacOS too.

 

[kofman13]

All the tests I've done were on Windows 10: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...analysis-and-few-in-house-measurements.17819/. In few months since I got it I had no issues on Windows 10 (several updates and SP were installed till then) and MacOS too.

thank you! btw, is the M4 the same as M2 in terms of quality and performance? (just more input and output, and mix knob?)

 

[Weeb Labs]

I can't speak to its performance under Windows but I can tell you that the direct microphone monitoring circuit is quite poor. Haven't measured it yet but there appears to be a +3dB high shelf above 800Hz or so.

 

[JeffGB]

I've had an M4 on the latest Windows 10 for several months with no issues, except one common one. If you are listening to music that is low res and then switch to a song that is high res (24/96 etc) and you are using ASIO in the player, it can take a few seconds to link up. You might even have to stop the song and start it again. If you use WASAPI (shared) instead of ASIO in your player, it doesn't happen at all. That's the only "problem" I've experienced. Everything else has been perfect.

 

[dfuller]

is the M4 the same as M2 in terms of quality and performance? (just more input and output, and mix knob?)

It's actually a touch better than the M2.

 

[hyperplanar]

Hi all. I currently use a focus rite Scarlett 2i2 1st gen I got almost 8 years ago. It lacks gain I need, I need 4 inputs these days, and my Scarlett has some faulty worn out knob issues. The M4 checks all the boxes for me. I would be teaching on zoom on my Mac with it. And then twitch streaming and producing in Ableton with it on Windows. I have found dozens upon dozens of posts and threads by windows users saying that the Motu M4 has terrible windows drivers and so many people have had nightmare experiences getting it to work on windows. Seeing as half the time I will be using it on a windows machine for paying pro audio work, that gets me really worried. But then at the same time half of those posts and threads have other windows users also chiming in saying it works fine for them… So I guess it seems like its just a gamble at this point if it will work on windows?

All the threads ive seen have been over a span of the last almost 1.5 years (some of which only 2 weeks ago) so I am hoping that the situation is better now with some updates for firmware/drivers from Motu? But then again these same threads say Motu is notoriously bad with window drivers? I just dont know who to listen to/trust. Anyone here with Motu M4 or M2 on windows? Good experience? Bad experience?

You'll probably be fine with the MOTU. Their drivers are better than Focusrite's, that's for sure... I had a first gen Scarlett 2i4 and some versions of the Focusrite driver gave me BSODs in Windows. I was also helping my friend out the other day who has a Saffire interface, and I was disappointed to find out Focusrite isn't making a driver available for macOS Big Sur, turning it into a paperweight.

However, if you're truly concerned about driver performance/reliability/length of support then you can't beat RME. lt'll just cost you a lot more (Babyface Pro is probably what you're looking for). IIRC even their 15+ year old products are still fully supported driver-wise.

 

[Pearljam5000]

How does it perform with Android?

 

[trl]

thank you! btw, is the M4 the same as M2 in terms of quality and performance? (just more input and output, and mix knob?)

You need to read both ASR reviews here for the M2 and M4, compare the graphs and Amir's conclusions too.

I can't speak to its performance under Windows but I can tell you that the direct microphone monitoring circuit is quite poor. Haven't measured it yet but there appears to be a +3dB high shelf above 800Hz or so.

Can you please elaborate this a bit more? On what graph were you looking to?

 

[Weeb Labs]

Can you please elaborate this a bit more? On what graph were you looking to?

To my knowledge, nobody has yet measured the microphone monitoring output but I intend to do it soon. A/B'ing the direct monitor with the recorded track, the former definitely has a significant high shelf. It doesn't occur when monitoring line level sources, however.

As always, take my subjective observations with a grain of salt in the absence of measurements but what I'm hearing is not a subtle difference. I expect that it will show up in the FR once measured.

 

[L5730]

I couldn't decide on what interface to get. Windows driver horror stories was a theme that kept coming up for almost every interface, the exception being anything RME. The main complaints for RME interfaces was that folks found TotalMix too much to handle and it confused them.

With the Black Friday deal, I grabbed 10% off a Babyface Pro FS coming in at £540 shipped. Yes, there is a price premium over the nearest rivals of similar feature set. This was a price I could accept. I get a 5 year warranty supported by Synthax in the UK. For those in the US it's different, and I think there is a free FX bundle instead.
It's rock stable with imperceptibly low latency. I can play guitar through amp sims without issue. Multi-client ASIO is something new I've never seen before - yes, multiple programs can play through RME ASIO at the same time! I don't think I have a need for that, but it works.
Fit and finish is good, everything feels smooth and tight and responsive. The one downside, other than price of course, is that the XLR do not have latches and have no way to facilitate latching. I completely get why they didn't on the input side (portable interface), but they could have allowed the housing notch on the output side. I guess it's easier to yank a cable out than pull the BFPfs off of a table or something, even though the cable to fit snug.

If you are getting paid work, then really it makes sense to just buy the RME device and save any possible headaches.
However, buy another interface from a place with a good returns policy and if you simply cannot get it to work under Windows, send the sucker back. A potential $$ saving.

 

[kofman13]

y'all are talking about multi client ASIO playback as a rare and premium thing... my old 2013 focus rite 2i2 1st gen has its own ASIO drivers and can play multiple sources fine. I will be working on an Ableton project listening to in on studio monitors with my interface, and then ill quickly alt tab to YouTube and listen to something, works fine even at the same time. can MOTU not do that?

 

[BDWoody]

I just dont know who to listen to/trust. Anyone here with Motu M4 or M2 on windows? Good experience? Bad experience?

I'm in the good experience camp (M4). I have had no issues. It's a handy little thing.

 

[bennetng]

y'all are talking about multi client ASIO playback as a rare and premium thing... my old 2013 focus rite 2i2 1st gen has its own ASIO drivers and can play multiple sources fine. I will be working on an Ableton project listening to in on studio monitors with my interface, and then ill quickly alt tab to YouTube and listen to something, works fine even at the same time. can MOTU not do that?

Like this:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mus...-fully-multi-client-drivers.html#post11205908
Youtube (browser) doesn't use ASIO.

But perhaps you can read this as well as he claimed even Youtube couldn't output sound on a Focusrite:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/weird-asio-behaviour.10855/post-303572

 

[L5730]

@kofman13 as @bennetng above has said, your browser is not using ASIO.

ASIO should 'lock' the audio interface to that software which is using it. Same as WASAPI exclusive mode. I've yet to come across any interface that will allow using two DAWs or say Reaper and Foobar2000 simultaneously outputting to the same ASIO audio device. Well, not until I came across this with the RME.

As I say, typically ASIO has locked the device/driver out, and so no other sounds can play to it.
Were you using the ASIO driver in Ableton, or the DirectSound/MME/WaveOut driver? One can use the DirectSound (or now also WASAPI shared) with multiple programs and they will all play sound simultaneously. I have Reaper set to release the audio driver when not in focus, so it'd release ASIO anyway, so Windows DirectSound could use the interface/DAC if I had it set as default.

Actual multi-client ASIO is something I have never seen or experienced before now.

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/pc-windows-asio-multiclient-driver-by-charlie-steinberg/20479
"Only very few ASIO drivers support true multiple application access. "

It seems MOTU and ESI may currently, or may have previously supported multi-client ASIO. There are more interfaces that seem to not necessarily lock out the interface when the ASIO driver is being used - hence why you say 'multi-client' and being able to listen to DAW and OS/Browser sound simultaneously.

 

[kofman13]

@kofman13 as @bennetng above has said, your browser is not using ASIO.

ASIO should 'lock' the audio interface to that software which is using it. Same as WASAPI exclusive mode. I've yet to come across any interface that will allow using two DAWs or say Reaper and Foobar2000 simultaneously outputting to the same ASIO audio device. Well, not until I came across this with the RME.

As I say, typically ASIO has locked the device/driver out, and so no other sounds can play to it.
Were you using the ASIO driver in Ableton, or the DirectSound/MME/WaveOut driver? One can use the DirectSound (or now also WASAPI shared) with multiple programs and they will all play sound simultaneously. I have Reaper set to release the audio driver when not in focus, so it'd release ASIO anyway, so Windows DirectSound could use the interface/DAC if I had it set as default.

Actual multi-client ASIO is something I have never seen or experienced before now.

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/pc-windows-asio-multiclient-driver-by-charlie-steinberg/20479
"Only very few ASIO drivers support true multiple application access. "

It seems MOTU and ESI may currently, or may have previously supported multi-client ASIO. There are more interfaces that seem to not necessarily lock out the interface when the ASIO driver is being used - hence why you say 'multi-client' and being able to listen to DAW and OS/Browser sound simultaneously.

oh I get it. I didnt realize thats what multi client meant. I actually have no need for two ASIO clients. I meant just using Ableton in ASIO and then also listening to audio file in windows explorer or audio from google chrome or Spotify,

 

[bennetng]

It seems MOTU and ESI may currently, or may have previously supported multi-client ASIO. There are more interfaces that seem to not necessarily lock out the interface when the ASIO driver is being used - hence why you say 'multi-client' and being able to listen to DAW and OS/Browser sound simultaneously.

Multiclient ASIO was not that rare in the past, quite a number of PCI(E) interfaces support them, including Creative gaming soundcards mentioned in these posts:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-difference-in-sound-quality.7029/post-410516
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-difference-in-sound-quality.7029/post-654195

The ESI cards you mentioned, probably Juli@ series, used the popular (at that time) VIA Envy24 controller:
https://www.viatech.com/en/silicon/legacy/audio/

These controllers were also used in M-Audio and some other consumer soundcards including Terratec and others, the implementation of multiclient ASIO is up to individual products, but the controllers themselves have this potential.

For recent products, I suppose the higher end MOTUs (e.g. 624) should support multiclient ASIO as they also use dedicated chips rather than generic ones like CMedia and XMOS.
https://prosound.ixbt.com/interfaces/motu-624.shtml

Dedicated controllers allow the manufacturer to have more flexibility in firmware and driver design, but also adds development cost.

So, is this "multiclient ASIO" just a useless feature for bragging rights? I did music sequencing and transcriptions, I like the MIDI sequencer of the old Cakewalk Sonar, but I also like the high quality time stretching feature from Reaper. Is there a way to combine both features? Yes you can. For example, it is possible to use ReWire to sync two DAWs together so that tempo and sample position of both DAWs are synced when you play and record in either DAW. In this way I can use Reaper's time stretching to slow down some difficult musical pieces so that I can hear the notes and chords more clearly during transcription, and use the sequencer features in Sonar at the same time. This operation requires multiclient ASIO.

 

[jae]

I've had an M4 on the latest Windows 10 for several months with no issues, except one common one. If you are listening to music that is low res and then switch to a song that is high res (24/96 etc) and you are using ASIO in the player, it can take a few seconds to link up. You might even have to stop the song and start it again. If you use WASAPI (shared) instead of ASIO in your player, it doesn't happen at all. That's the only "problem" I've experienced. Everything else has been perfect.

I have the exact experience

 

[BeerBear]

Just to chime in on the multi-client ASIO thing, because it's a pet peeve of mine: nowadays many USB soundcards actually support it, because they use the same (slightly customized) Thesycon USB drivers. This includes various models from Behringer, NI, SSL, Audient, ...
These MOTUs don't use the Thesycon driver AFAIK, but they do support multi-client ASIO. Focusrites, OTOH, don't.
I think it's a very nice feature to have. But it goes without saying that it's not the only thing that affects a driver's overall quality.
That thread on Gearslutz linked above is a decent reference for this functionality, although many people still assume ASIO+non-ASIO (vs ASIO+ASIO) playback when you say multi-client, so it's best to double check.