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A Visit to Mike Lavigne's Home and Sound Galleries Media Server

Wombat

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Back to the OP.

093A8561.jpg


............... and I thought those panels on the wall were sound diffusers. Would you believe $1 million dollar audio sculptures? :rolleyes:
 

Blumlein 88

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How perfect was that quote Ray!
In the end what can you do about a room full of grow men that still believe in Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy, and The Boogie Man?
Pass out stockings filled with USB cables, hand them 50 cent coins and then go BOOOO! They'll leave the room happier and satisfied.
 

Wombat

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How perfect was that quote Ray!
In the end what can you do about a room full of grow men that still believe in Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy, and The Boogie Man?

Since Google, even kids don't believe these things although it doesn't pay for them to let-on.
 

fas42

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But, you can still believe in Good Sound ... even though it may hide in a deep, dark forest, for only the adventurous to seek out ...
 

Cosmik

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When one looks at the assaults on science, climate change deniers...

...Since I don't buy the idea that there is any meaningful concern over audiophiles causing any real harm by having whatever beliefs they may have, I still suspect this particular fight is more about ego than anything else.
Does that not make them "deniers" then? In the former case you have a special (religious) term for a person who holds a view you don't approve of - ironically juxtaposed against a reference to assaults on science..! In the second, you will generously allow people the freedom to hold any view they like - about audio. But if you're so concerned that holding the wrong views on the climate has practical consequences, what if these audiophiles hold the common belief that Class A amps sound better, and should be left switched on burning 400W for 24 hours a day?
 
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watchnerd

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Crazy ideas exist because the 'scientific crowd' can't get their act together; the latter is proven to me every time I have to listen to mediocre, or appalling SQ when I go to some event, or place where 'pro' or engineered sound is happening - if cars were made as badly as sound systems often come across, public transport would have won decades ago ...

No, this is a complete logical fallacy -- poor execution of audio engineering doesn't disprove audio science any more than medical malpractice disproves medical science.
 

fas42

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No, this is a complete logical fallacy -- poor execution of audio engineering doesn't disprove audio science any more than medical malpractice disproves medical science.
In the arena of audio reproduction it has nothing to do incorrectness of argument - the poor consumer just wants to listen to great sound, as he probably heard at some special moment from an unknown system. And he struggles to get it! He puts together an "audio science approved" rig ... and it doesn't push the emotional buttons, like he gets from some setups he comes across - why is it so hard to get the type of sound I want, he's thinking ... so, he starts chasing "magic solutions" to make things better ...

Audio science is not "wrong" - it just doesn't have the full picture under control ... just like our understanding of how the universe works: the thinking 100 years ago by the main scientists of the day was the best picture to date, back then - ummm, since that time ...
 

Cosmik

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Audio science is not "wrong" - it just doesn't have the full picture under control ... just like our understanding of how the universe works: the thinking 100 years ago by the main scientists of the day was the best picture to date, back then - ummm, since that time ...
I suspect that 100 years ago, a modern audio system would be very well understood. They tried their best to get a linear system with the technology available; modern technology has now delivered it. Nothing has fundamentally changed. They would even understand stereo:
Clément Ader demonstrated the first two-channel audio system in Paris in 1881
 

fas42

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I suspect that 100 years ago, a modern audio system would be very well understood. They tried their best to get a linear system with the technology available; modern technology has now delivered it. Nothing has fundamentally changed. They would even understand stereo:
What they don't understand, to this day, are what audible artifacts are critical to subjectively pleasing, satisfying playback - and which aren't. 60 years ago they had a good handle on what was necessary, found largely by trial and error - and that clarity was lost as movements in technology marched on. Digital playback was a disaster for many for decades - "digital sounding" was a perjorative for how many years, slowly now fading ...
 

Sal1950

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Fair amount of it happens in your backyard in Miami! Check out this great piece by Morley Safer of 60 minutes:
I like the guy that said, "we're from Hollywood, this is theater, its all theater.
How about those 2 freaks with the shaved heads doing the twins thing, wonder if they're brother-sister.
It really is true, you just can't fix stupid.
 

Sal1950

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Analog Scott

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"The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important." - Albert J. Nock
I kind of like the philosophy that says "it's better to be nice than to be right, unless it's about how to land the airplane." I think it's well worth while to explore, discuss and even debate ideas and idologies in audio. I don't think it's worth while to sling mud at each other over differences in opinions or beliefs about audio. The stakes simply are not worth it. Not a whole lot is really at stake.
 

Analog Scott

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Doesn't need to be ridicule. Several times when investigated it was found bringing facts to the attention of people actually increases the intensity to which they believe wrongly. Or that debating misinformation with the truth increases the belief in the misinformation. Still you don't help anything by doing nothing. A better approach is hard to come by as people are very rarely convinced to change opinion via debate or even results.

Yeah, OK I am totally down with that. I am all for debate and discussion so long as the point is to learn and teach.



JGH unintentionally (and apparently to his regret in the end) constructed a platform that said technical knowledge was insufficient and only thru subjectively experienced phenomena can we adequately describe audio gear. I don't think he intended that design be based upon subjectivity, but only description of the results. Not a big surprise that increased the potential audience well beyond that of High Fidelity and similar magazines. Various aspects of this experience became semi-codified along familiar lines like one sees with oenophiles. People believe what they hear and from a community of like minded people feel confident they have authority and credentials to disagree with anyone just based upon local personal experience. Everyone has this human tendency. Likewise the tendency for humans to have highly biased perceptual experiences while feeling no bias is involved. JGH didn't intend to throw out the science or technical understanding. It was more along the lines that simple specsmanship was missing something. He opened Pandora's box of subjectivity however.

Sounds about right.
 
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amirm

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Jay seems kind of tired and sleepy in that video. Not like him.

He was also on 60 minutes and gave the best answer as to why he is paid so much. He said one day you are going to be invited to the office and be told you are screwed (fired). On that day, you better have gotten enough money to not care!
 

Analog Scott

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Rejected comic-book artist?

View attachment 9798

I thought his(& assistants)work was 'cute' but trivial. I guess he struck it lucky.
He was an artist of the highest level at self promotion and showmanship. And he was kind of surprisingly transparent about that fact. I was never a fan. He had reasonable talents as a commercial artist but his greatest achievement was advancements in the art of hype.
 

Analog Scott

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Does that not make them "deniers" then?

In some cases yes, in some cases no.

In the former case you have a special (religious) term for a person who holds a view you don't approve of - ironically juxtaposed against a reference to assaults on science..! In the second, you will generously allow people the freedom to hold any view they like - about audio. But if you're so concerned that holding the wrong views on the climate has practical consequences, what if these audiophiles hold the common belief that Class A amps sound better, and should be left switched on burning 400W for 24 hours a day?

I have no problem with people holding all kinds of religious views in this world. My problem is when people with religious views try to impose those views on others who don't share them. Yes, I am concerned about people holding the wrong views on things like climate change, particularly people who have power to do something about it or prevent something being done about it. I am not concerned so much about the enviremental effects of class A amps on climate change. Nor am I concerned about any beliefs about the relative sound quality of any amps. No audiophile is being denied access to the kind of amp they believe best works for audio because others have opposing beliefs. The difference between climate change and audiophilia are two fold. 1. Climate change has serious consequences. Audio does not. 2. One's beliefs in audio, regardless of what they are, do not prevent others from persuing audio based on different beliefs.[/QUOTE]
 

Thomas savage

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I kind of like the philosophy that says "it's better to be nice than to be right, unless it's about how to land the airplane." I think it's well worth while to explore, discuss and even debate ideas and idologies in audio. I don't think it's worth while to sling mud at each other over differences in opinions or beliefs about audio. The stakes simply are not worth it. Not a whole lot is really at stake.
This works if your in a arena that runs on mutual respect and is about exploring ideas rather than imposing ‘selfs’ .

It requires a kind of intellectual altruism, where individuals put the pursuit of advancement of knowledge beyond their own ego/super egotistical selfs. ( this was the dream of a young forum moderator)

Have a look around ( out the window, on the tv , on the Internet) umm...
 

Sal1950

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Have a look around ( out the window, on the tv , on the Internet) umm...
That's why sometimes a good hard smack upside the head works better than anything. :D
Problem with the internet is, it's so hard to reach out and touch someone. :eek:
 

Wombat

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I kind of like the philosophy that says "it's better to be nice than to be right, unless it's about how to land the airplane." I think it's well worth while to explore, discuss and even debate ideas and idologies in audio. I don't think it's worth while to sling mud at each other over differences in opinions or beliefs about audio. The stakes simply are not worth it. Not a whole lot is really at stake.

Isn't that what your local bar is for? Cheers. :)
 
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