A Thorough Examination of Shunyata Research’s Medical Device Claims

[Sernyl]

ECG is mV.
EEG is µV
Why don't they speak about that ?
Surprising...

Reminds me of the so-called "medical grade" capacitors : they could charge and keep it just in time for a prompt defibrillator discharge. i.e. a few minutes, no more :-(

 

[Mr.Overkill]

@Poufflee, as I am reading through what appears to be a hit piece...I am asking myself why? why put in all the effort you are going through? what did they do to you? I mean false advertising claims have been going on since the beginning of speech. why Shunyata/CIS? why not Audioquest or Cardas, or any other high end company? they all make claims that are shades of truth. and heck, don't even get me going on the flat out lies in the pro audio world! or...worse...the car stereo world.

I have no affiliation with Shunyata or CIS, But it struck me as odd that someone would spend SOOO much time and effort. what do you expect to get from it and why? I am really curious.

"Everybody Lie's" - G. House.

 

[NTK]

I have no affiliation with Shunyata or CIS ...

"Everybody Lie's" - G. House.

Does that statement apply to you too? Are we supposed to take anything you wrote at face value then?

 

[Mr.Overkill]

I am not Greg House...from the tv show House....But I do believe in his statement. everyone lies. and why you study it. people lie to protect themselves or to protect someone else. doesn't matter if it is 1- a lie of omission, 2- a little white lie, or 3- a big fat lie. EVERYONE lies.

 

[NTK]

I am not Greg House...from the tv show House....But I do believe in his statement. everyone lies. and why you study it. people lie to protect themselves or to protect someone else. doesn't matter if it is 1- a lie of omission, 2- a little white lie, or 3- a big fat lie. EVERYONE lies.

Since you shout EVERONE lies, isn't it odd that you have a problem with a thread on Shunyata being less than truthful with their claims?

 

[Mr.Overkill]

why are you attacking me? I don't have any problem with the thread, I'm just curious why someone would bother?

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

why are you attacking me? I don't have any problem with the thread, I'm just curious why someone would bother?

If you spent any time on this forum you’ll understand.

 

[fcracer]

I have no affiliation with Shunyata or CIS, But it struck me as odd that someone would spend SOOO much time and effort. what do you expect to get from it and why? I am really curious.

The OP has provided a great service to the community by transparently presenting the company’s claims and sharing his research. Any of us can take that information and interpret it how we want. If we want to spend money with this company, we can, but the key is that he’s put the work in to uncover correct and incorrect information and saved us all time.

 

[MAB]

why are you attacking me? I don't have any problem with the thread, I'm just curious why someone would bother?

Why would you bother calling the thread a 'hit piece' if you didn't have a problem with it? I'm curious what you call an attack.

 

[Punter]

I say well done to the OP. His investigation is smack on topic for this thread and the forum. Shunyata as a company has been selling products with dubious performance claims for may years. The fac that they're now stepping out of the relatively benign world of domestic sound reproduction and making claims that their products are beneficial in a medical setting should be alarming to anyone.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I am not Greg House...from the tv show House....But I do believe in his statement. everyone lies. and why you study it. people lie to protect themselves or to protect someone else. doesn't matter if it is 1- a lie of omission, 2- a little white lie, or 3- a big fat lie. EVERYONE lies.

If you watch the show, you will know that the fictional Dr. House does not respond to the notion that everyone lies by throwing up his hands and accepting it as you do. No, he calls out the lies, then (because it's his job), he digs in and tries to figure out what the lie is, what it's covering up. "Everyone lies" is not a get-out-of-jail-free card for serial fabulists like Shunyata "Research".

 

[Head_Unit]

Grant Samuelsen’s response has added a lot of helpful context and clarifies...

This is a great an interesting thread, particularly about marketing. But back to power cables, whence this all comes, I will still maintain that if a device can actually make a DIFFERENCE to the actual AUDIO waveform (not the AC power line or interconnects or whatever) we have the technology to measure that DIFFERENCE. And if a manufacturer does not provide that, they are almost surely selling hot air hype and wishful thinking. For instance I'd expect a power conditioner or cable to be able to show say a lower noise floor at the amplifier outputs.
(If data does show a difference then we can argue if it is audible...)

 

[jan.didden]

Good points. The sound we hear comes from the output of our amps going to the speaker.
If something improves or otherwise changes things in an audible way, that should be measureable at the speaker posts.
We can measure orders of magnitude deeper than even the most optimistic 'audible difference'.

The elephant in the room is Perception. I find it amazing that audiophiles, whose world revolves around hearing and related issues, in general have no knowledge of, or even interest in, how hearing/perception actually works. Amazing.

Jan

 

[JSmith]

I'm curious what you call an attack

The statement certainly feels a bit overkill...

JSmith

 

[Punter]

This is a great an interesting thread, particularly about marketing. But back to power cables, whence this all comes, I will still maintain that if a device can actually make a DIFFERENCE to the actual AUDIO waveform (not the AC power line or interconnects or whatever) we have the technology to measure that DIFFERENCE. And if a manufacturer does not provide that, they are almost surely selling hot air hype and wishful thinking. For instance I'd expect a power conditioner or cable to be able to show say a lower noise floor at the amplifier outputs.
(If data does show a difference then we can argue if it is audible...)

I think it was one of my first OP threads on this forum.

The Truth About HiFi Amplifier Power Supplies

In this post I attempt to lay out the facts pertaining to amplifier power supplies with the object of educating the reader as to how a simple power cord absolutely cannot influence the "sound" of the amplifier. The same goes for fuses, power outlets, circuit breakers, earth rods, house wiring etc, etc. The fact that there seems to be a robust market for products on the mains power side that claim to make a "difference" speaks more for the suggestibility of the target audience than the efficacy of the products.

 

[Head_Unit]

a simple power cord absolutely cannot influence the "sound" of the amplifier. The same goes for fuses, power outlets, circuit breakers, earth rods, house wiring etc, etc.

Hey, and someone just told me there is no Santa Claus!?! Dammit, all my illusions are shattered.

The problem with the electrical side is that *some* products might cause or remove a hum/noise condition, and this get conflated into "it ALL makes a difference." Or some power conditioner maker will show a graph where all kinds of noise is removed from the AC line...well a good power supply should not care about that. HOWEVER most people are not electrical engineers and do not know that. So snake oil is sold with technical mumbo jumbo and people fall for it out of ignorance.

 

[mocenigo]

Hey, and someone just told me there is no Santa Claus!?! Dammit, all my illusions are shattered.

The problem with the electrical side is that *some* products might cause or remove a hum/noise condition, and this get conflated into "it ALL makes a difference." Or some power conditioner maker will show a graph where all kinds of noise is removed from the AC line...well a good power supply should not care about that. HOWEVER most people are not electrical engineers and do not know that. So snake oil is sold with technical mumbo jumbo and people fall for it out of ignorance.

Indeed, some of what we call snake oil is designed to "fix" defective products. Many pre- and power-amplifiers have simple linear power supplies with a simple bank of capacitors, for instance. It is rare to see even a CRC filter, not to speak of CLC or even LC/LCLC (which would be even better but reduces the voltage). So, noise enters, and this is sold as "this device is excellent because it is revealing"—which then removes the incentive to design a better one. Which would be perceived as "worse" by the audiophile cohort because it is no longer "revealing" of power cables/power conditioners...

Not to speak of the fact that this snake oil is also sold at absurd prices.

Roberto

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Not to speak of the fact that this snake oil is also sold at absurd prices.

...to old men who can't hear for sh*t anymore anyway