A subwoofer with my Genelec 8361A ?

[tmtomh]

You calibrated them to a flat target, now you need to do the downward tilt according to your preference, there's Sound Character Profiler in the GLM dedicated to do exactly that. My recommendation would be +3dB below 200Hz for starters and then further adjust. I use something like this

View attachment 406455

Agreed. My GLM sound character profiler is similar. My low shelf is +2.5dB starting at 100Hz (or 110, I can't recall at the moment), and my high shelf is -1.5dB starting at 1kHz.

 

[Berdri]

Well, hello again, I made couple of changes then following your advices from all of you. Here is my new measurment and sounds profile. Also on my RME ADI 2 PRO I've set the Loudness to these parameters : bass gain 10 dB and Treble Gain 5 and Low Vol Ref -50dB.

It's still is lacking some bass to my ears even if the sounds is definitley more clear ! How could I go farther that these new modifications so far ? is there any setting to touch on the RME that could be useful or something I can do with the speakers ? As I know the bass when the speakers are uncalibrated is really good for me, but the clarity is terrible ! When calibrated I loose some bass but gain some clarity on the medium (especially voice and instruments on my reference track).

 

[tmtomh]

Well, hello again, I made couple of changes then following your advices from all of you. Here is my new measurment and sounds profile. Also on my RME ADI 2 PRO I've set the Loudness to these parameters : bass gain 10 dB and Treble Gain 5 and Low Vol Ref -50dB.

It's still is lacking some bass to my ears even if the sounds is definitley more clear ! How could I go farther that these new modifications so far ? is there any setting to touch on the RME that could be useful or something I can do with the speakers ? As I know the bass when the speakers are uncalibrated is really good for me, but the clarity is terrible ! When calibrated I loose some bass but gain some clarity on the medium (especially voice and instruments on my reference track).


View attachment 406532View attachment 406535

Glad you have seen some degree of positive change!

I have two suggestions - although I stress that I do not know how much these will help.

1. The perception of bass energy is not only affected by how much bass EQ boost there is. It can also be affected by the treble - because the frequency balance, the proportional energy of bass to treble, can impact how bassy (or "warm" or "lean") the sound seems. So one option is to use the High Shelf, at the current setting of 1000Hz, and instead of the 0.0 setting, set it to minus-1.5 or 2dB. You can of course try it at -2.5 or -3dB too if you want to experiment. I doubt this will solve the issue for you, but it takes just a minute to try it, and it's completely and easily reversible, so definitely worth a shot, because with the High Shelf disabled (set to 0.0), your system likely sounds a bit too bright.

2. I'm not sure what kind of bass energy you are feeling is still lacking. But one sure-fire way to increase the amount of bass the system is putting out is to raise the Frequency of that Low Shelf - you can try raising it from 120Hz to 150Hz or 200Hz. Because the Low Shelf is gradual, this kind of change will produce the full 3dB boost at a higher frequency, meaning that instead of not reaching the full 3dB boost until down around 30Hz as it does now, it will reach the full 3dB boost around 50Hz or so, giving you an extra 0.5 to 1dB boost in the crucial 50-100Hz range (and maxing out the Low Shelf boost at all the frequencies below that). In my experience that difference is quite audible.

Now, the potential problem is that as you move that Low Shelf frequency up, you can get a more "warm" or even "bloated" sound, meaning you might lose some of that extra clarity that you are enjoying now. But as with the High Shelf, the only way to find out is to try it - and it's so easy to experiment with it that you might as well give it a try. You can always instantly set it back the way it was if you want.

 

[unpluggged]

Low Vol Ref -50dB.

What's your normal listening levels? This setting seems a bit too low, unless you usually listen at volumes not exceeding -30 dB, which would not be an optimal level matching.

 

[Berdri]

What's your normal listening levels? This setting seems a bit too low, unless you usually listen at volumes not exceeding -30 dB, which would not be an optimal level matching.

Well my level of listening where I have the best experience is -30dB on the RME but as the speakers are really powerfull the SPL in the room is like 90dB at that level ! So overall I never go higher than -30dB on the RME...

 

[unpluggged]

Well my level of listening where I have the best experience is -30dB on the RME but as the speakers are really powerfull the SPL in the room is like 90dB at that level ! So overall I never go higher than -30dB on the RME...

I see. Can you attenuate your speakers a bit more (I think you can do it in GLM), so your normal listening level would be around -20dB on the RME? How are your speakers connected, by analog or digitally?

 

[Berdri]

I see. Can you attenuate your speakers a bit more (I think you can do it in GLM), so your normal listening level would be around -20dB on the RME? How are your speakers connected, by analog or digitally?

Well I'll give you the full details, behind the speakers there is a wheel for the volume, currently both are set at 0 dB or slightly below the 0dB we can't be so precise on that with a screwdriver you know haha. As the for the GLM, the level is set at 0dB or let's say its at full level !
The source is TIDAL on my Mac wired via USB on the RME ADI 2 PRO FS with exclusive mode on TIDAL. Both speakers are connected directly to the RME via XLR on the back of the RME to its analog. What would be the benefit of setting up the volume at -20dB instead of -30dB ?

 

[Berdri]

I see. Can you attenuate your speakers a bit more (I think you can do it in GLM), so your normal listening level would be around -20dB on the RME? How are your speakers connected, by analog or digitally?

Well I'll give you the full details, behind the speakers there is a wheel for the volume, currently both are set at 0 dB or slightly below the 0dB we can't be so precise on that with a screwdriver you know haha. As the for the GLM, the level is set at 0dB or let's say its at full level !
The source is TIDAL on my Mac wired via USB on the RME ADI 2 PRO FS with exclusive mode on TIDAL. Both speakers are connected directly to the RME via XLR on the back of the RME to its analog. What would be the benefit of setting up the volume at -20dB instead of -30dB ?

Well it seems I adjusted with the Genelec microphone through a sound wave to match the level I had when listening at -55dB with now 20dB on the RME. The music seems fuller indeed, maybe slightly more bass but I can't tell for sure it is really subtle.

 

[unpluggged]

What would be the benefit of setting up the volume at -20dB instead of -30dB ?

It would optimize your system's dynamic range while preserving enough headroom for playing back material with lower loudness levels.

Both speakers are connected directly to the RME via XLR on the back of the RME to its analog

Do you use the auto ref function of the RME? (You can tell it if your volume level indication on the volume screen of the RME shows as dBr values.) If not, which ref level is your RME output set to?

 

[Berdri]

It would optimize your system's dynamic range while preserving enough headroom for playing back material with lower loudness levels.


Do you use the auto ref function of the RME? (You can tell it if your volume level indication on the volume screen of the RME shows as dBr values.) If not, which ref level is your RME output set to?

The setting is on Auto Ref On yeah, at -20dB with my new setting its +4dBu unitl +24dbU when at maximum

 

[unpluggged]

The setting is on Auto Ref On yeah, at -20dB with my new setting its +4dBu unitl +24dbU when at maximum

Right, then you can either leave it as it is now (your analog output has the optimal setting), or you can try connecting the speakers via AES digital output, as described in the manuals of the ADI-2 Pro and of your Genelecs. You will also need to make sure that the "Dig. Out Source" option is set to "Main Out", otherwise your DSP processing (volume, dynamic loudness, EQ, bass and treble) will not apply. Note that in this case you will need to disable the auto ref function, otherwise your digital output volume will jump around.

Regarding your Genelecs' SPL setting, I would set the output volume of the RME at around -20 dBr, play pink noise and then set the output level in GLM so it would produce the highest volume you'd be comfortable with.

 

[Berdri]

Right, then you can either leave it as it is now (your analog output has the optimal setting), or you can try connecting the speakers via AES digital output, as described in the manuals of the ADI-2 Pro and of your Genelecs. You will also need to make sure that the "Dig. Out Source" option is set to "Main Out", otherwise your DSP processing (volume, dynamic loudness, EQ, bass and treble) will not apply. Note that in this case you will need to disable the auto ref function, otherwise your digital output volume will jump around.

Regarding your Genelecs' SPL setting, I would set the output volume of the RME at around -20 dBr, play pink noise and then set the output level in GLM so it would produce the highest volume you'd be comfortable with.

But acutally that's what I did so far but I'm not satisfied with the bass, what I'll do I thnik is the best option : let the dynmic loudness activated, remove the correction on the bass frequencies applied by GLM all the notch before 200hz. So that I can play with the power bass of the room itself, for sure it would not be the most perfect bass in terms of clarity but I least I would benefit from more power and presance. I think this way I can have more power in the bass at lower volume while enchaning the clarity. Sounds right ?

 

[unpluggged]

But acutally that's what I did so far but I'm not satisfied with the bass, what I'll do I thnik is the best option : let the dynmic loudness activated, remove the correction on the bass frequencies applied by GLM all the notch before 200hz. So that I can play with the power bass of the room itself, for sure it would not be the most perfect bass in terms of clarity but I least I would benefit from more power and presance. I think this way I can have more power in the bass at lower volume while enchaning the clarity. Sounds right ?

I think I'm familiar with your impression after compensating for some room gain in the bass region, you may find it lacking at first. I use a bit of higher bass shelf for my target curve, at +7 or +8 dB up to about 80...100 Hz. You can play with this shelf in your GLM target, and I also recommend to let your current GLM correction stay for a couple of days first, get accustomed to it, and then you might end up satisfied with your bass response. If not, tweak it a bit and test it for another day or two. It's an iterative process of polishing it out

And yes, all this combined with the dynamic loudness (you might want to tweak its settings a bit as well along the way).

 

[Berdri]

I think I'm familiar with your impression after compensating for some room gain in the bass region, you may find it lacking at first. I use a bit of higher bass shelf for my target curve, at +7 or +8 dB up to about 80...100 Hz. You can play with this shelf in your GLM target, and I also recommend to let your current GLM correction stay for a couple of days first, get accustomed to it, and then you might end up satisfied with your bass response. If not, tweak it a bit and test it for another day or two. It's an iterative process of polishing it out

And yes, all this combined with the dynamic loudness (you might want to tweak its settings a bit as well along the way).

Sounds like a reasonable idea for sure, this thing is the low shelf on the GLM is max +3dB you can't go higher than that...

 

[unpluggged]

Sounds like a reasonable idea for sure, this thing is the low shelf on the GLM is max +3dB you can't go higher than that...

Oh, I didn't know that. But you have the wonderful bass control on your ADI-2 Pro, for which you can adjust its gain, frequency and Q factor, so you are covered.

 

[holdingpants01]

Sounds like a reasonable idea for sure, this thing is the low shelf on the GLM is max +3dB you can't go higher than that...

That's why we were suggesting using high shelf as well, you can put it at the same frequency and just lower everything above instead of boosting everything below

 

[Berdri]

That's why we were suggesting using high shelf as well, you can put it at the same frequency and just lower everything above instead of boosting everything below

But actually it doesn't suits me, I can't let the bass like this according to my hear. I think I'll buy a subwoofer, there some alternative like the RCF Ayra Pro10 Sub or I can also go with an hifi alernative such as the Klipsch R 121 SW, my father have one, I can maybe try to wire it to my setup to see how it goes. What do you think ?

 

[JustJones]

Bump your low shelf up more than 3dB.

Edit: sorry I see you tried. You can go higher than 3dB on the filters but first you need to change the Sound Character Profiler from manual to none. Once you do that you have more control.

 

[holdingpants01]

But actually it doesn't suits me, I can't let the bass like this according to my hear. I think I'll buy a subwoofer, there some alternative like the RCF Ayra Pro10 Sub or I can also go with an hifi alernative such as the Klipsch R 121 SW, my father have one, I can maybe try to wire it to my setup to see how it goes. What do you think ?

I'm afraid that if 15dB bump that comes from your room gain and RME EQ is not enough, then your preferences are, let's say, unusual, so I don't think there's any other way than trying by yourself

 

[Berdri]

I'm afraid that if 15dB bump that comes from your room gain and RME EQ is not enough, then your preferences are, let's say, unusual, so I don't think there's any other way than trying by yourself

For sure, I'll do that and see we never know, after all, all ears are different right ?