A subwoofer with my Genelec 8361A ?

[Berdri]

Hello everyone,

I hope you are doing well and that I'm in the right place on this forum for such a thread. It's my first time posting on this forum that I'm sometimes looking at for precious advice or to look at all the knowledge covered here, it's quite amazing !

Anyway my question today is rather basic : I'm a proud owner of a pair of Genelec 8361A speakers. I'm satisfied with the sounds its exceptional, however I feel that it could benefit from a subwoofer to support their bass, especially at lower volume. Currently I've sent the GLM curve on the bass frequency definitely higher than what the computer calculated for my room otherwise it loose all the bass because it flatten the response!
My room is maybe around 30m2. What good options could be among the range of subfoower offered my Genelec ? I know people use mostly the 7380 sub with these speakers but its a little bit expensive and maybe overkill ?
For reference, I've put the frequences chart attached for both speakers. Lets me know what you think !

Thanks in advance for your help.
Regards
Berdri

 

[staticV3]

I'm satisfied with the sounds its exceptional, however I feel that it could benefit from a subwoofer to support their bass, especially at lower volume.

Instead of a subwoofer, consider buying an RME ADI-2 DAC or ADI-2 Pro for their built-in equal loudness compensation.

This will subtly add or reduce bass and treble as you change the volume, to account for some oddities in the way we hear sound, and thereby preserve the perceived tonality when changing volume.

On the RME, this feature can be fully customized to suit your tastes.

 

[tmtomh]

Hello everyone,

I hope you are doing well and that I'm in the right place on this forum for such a thread. It's my first time posting on this forum that I'm sometimes looking at for precious advice or to look at all the knowledge covered here, it's quite amazing !

Anyway my question today is rather basic : I'm a proud owner of a pair of Genelec 8361A speakers. I'm satisfied with the sounds its exceptional, however I feel that it could benefit from a subwoofer to support their bass, especially at lower volume. Currently I've sent the GLM curve on the bass frequency definitely higher than what the computer calculated for my room otherwise it loose all the bass because it flatten the response!
My room is maybe around 30m2. What good options could be among the range of subfoower offered my Genelec ? I know people use mostly the 7380 sub with these speakers but its a little bit expensive and maybe overkill ?
For reference, I've put the frequences chart attached for both speakers. Lets me know what you think !

Thanks in advance for your help.
Regards
Berdri

View attachment 406442

If you are happy with the bass at higher volumes and it's only at lower volumes that you are not satisfied, then I would agree with @staticV3 - an automated, dynamic loudness contour would be the simplest and most convenient option.

Looking at your GLM measurements, I would also wonder if you might experiment with the placement of your speakers a little bit. It looks like you have some response dips around 100Hz on both speakers, and around 50Hz on the left speaker. This is very common, and often it cannot be helped. And I have found that when the dips are very narrow, they are not necessarily even a problem in terms of what we actually hear when listening to music. But with all that said, the sort of double-dip at about 90Hz and 100Hz on the left speaker, plus the relatively wide dip on that side from 40-60Hz, could be negatively impacting the bass you hear in the room, especially since 50Hz tends to be an important frequency for sounds like kick drums, and 100Hz is the first harmonic of that, making it important as well.

Finally, I am not sure if all those notch filters were created by GLM or if you manually created some of them, but it is strange that the bass response of the right speaker is so much higher than the left - and it is also strange that there appear to be 6dB notch boosts where the measured response dips - GLM tends not to create those kinds of filters becuase if there's a bass dip like that, it's usually a phase-cancellation issue in the room, and so boosting that frequency won't really do anything (because the boosted bass at that frequency will still be mostly cancelled out by the out-of-phase reflection, which will be boosted as well).

So if you are able to do so in your room, you could try moving the speakers slightly closer to or farther from the front wall, or slightly closer together or farther apart. You could also try slightly tilting them up or down on their "isopod" feet - I have found that can change the perception of bass as well. And of course if you are able you can also experiment with moving your listening position forward or back by a foot or so.

Good luck!

 

[Berdri]

Instead of a subwoofer, consider buying an RME ADI-2 DAC or ADI-2 Pro for their built-in equal loudness compensation.

This will subtly add or reduce bass and treble as you change the volume, to account for some oddities in the way we hear sound, and thereby preserve the perceived tonality when changing volume.

On the RME, this feature can be fully customized to suit your tastes.

That's perfect man, my sound card is the ADI 2 PRO FS black edition haha

 

[Berdri]

If you are happy with the bass at higher volumes and it's only at lower volumes that you are not satisfied, then I would agree with @staticV3 - an automated, dynamic loudness contour would be the simplest and most convenient option.

Looking at your GLM measurements, I would also wonder if you might experiment with the placement of your speakers a little bit. It looks like you have some response dips around 100Hz on both speakers, and around 50Hz on the left speaker. This is very common, and often it cannot be helped. And I have found that when the dips are very narrow, they are not necessarily even a problem in terms of what we actually hear when listening to music. But with all that said, the sort of double-dip at about 90Hz and 100Hz on the left speaker, plus the relatively wide dip on that side from 40-60Hz, could be negatively impacting the bass you hear in the room, especially since 50Hz tends to be an important frequency for sounds like kick drums, and 100Hz is the first harmonic of that, making it important as well.

Finally, I am not sure if all those notch filters were created by GLM or if you manually created some of them, but it is strange that the bass response of the right speaker is so much higher than the left - and it is also strange that there appear to be 6dB notch boosts where the measured response dips - GLM tends not to create those kinds of filters becuase if there's a bass dip like that, it's usually a phase-cancellation issue in the room, and so boosting that frequency won't really do anything (because the boosted bass at that frequency will still be mostly cancelled out by the out-of-phase reflection, which will be boosted as well).

So if you are able to do so in your room, you could try moving the speakers slightly closer to or farther from the front wall, or slightly closer together or farther apart. You could also try slightly tilting them up or down on their "isopod" feet - I have found that can change the perception of bass as well. And of course if you are able you can also experiment with moving your listening position forward or back by a foot or so.

Good luck!

That's some really impresive insights ! FYI, I did modified the bass frequencies in the GLM. Both my speakers are placed against the wall but the left one has like 20 % of the back surface that resonate to the other part of my room (my room is not a square; my home is a triangle on a triangle, I know it sounds silly but it is what it is, we had a crazy architect). I could maybe draw you the placement with my room precise measurment that could help us to imagine where would be the best way to place those babies.
Thanks again

 

[unpluggged]

That's perfect man, my sound card is the ADI 2 PRO FS black edition haha

Why then don't you use the dynamic loudness feature? What is so funny about that?

 

[holdingpants01]

You calibrated them to a flat target, now you need to do the downward tilt according to your preference, there's Sound Character Profiler in the GLM dedicated to do exactly that. My recommendation would be +3dB below 200Hz for starters and then further adjust. I use something like this

 

[Berdri]

Why then don't you use the dynamic loudness feature? What is so funny about that?

No its great to know I have the gear to do that already that's all, don't break my fun ;-)

 

[Berdri]

You calibrated them to a flat target, now you need to do the downward tilt according to preference, there's Sound Character Profiler in the GLM dedicated to do exactly that. My recommendation would be +3dB below 200Hz for starters and then further adjust. I use something like this

View attachment 406455

Brillant ! I should use that then, I'll give it a try

 

[unpluggged]

No its great to know I have the gear to do that already that's all, don't break my fun ;-)

Then I'd suggest to look through the ADI-2 Pro's manual, it's even more entertaining, I promise I think once you get yourself familiarized with the dynamic loudness setting, you will realize how useful it is for your case.

And yes, I'd alter your GLM target for some boost in the bass region.

 

[Berdri]

Then I'd suggest to look through the ADI-2 Pro's manual, it's even more entertaining, I promise I think once you get yourself familiarized with the dynamic loudness setting, you will realize how useful it is for your case.

And yes, I'd alter your GLM target for some boost in the bass region.

Yeah sounds really great, I guess I'll do a mix of both approach ! Thanks for your advice even if I don't appreciate your slightly arrogant tone in the background; But I handle it, it's fine for me. I'll made some modification tonight or tomorrow and share my result with all of you afterwards

 

[holdingpants01]

Brillant ! I should use that then, I'll give it a try

oops I just saw that you didn't fix the low end peaks, so you already have +15dB boost in the bass... Most the of notches should be below 100Hz and you don't have even one, I'm not sure having that much bass is a good idea. Did you try the automatic calibration in GLM?

 

[Berdri]

oops I just saw that you didn't fix the low end peaks, so you already have +15dB boost in the bass... Most the of notches should be below 100Hz and you don't have even one, I'm not sure having that much bass is a good idea. Did you try the automatic calibration in GLM?

Yeah it's the automatic calibration that I then modified to have some bass according to my ears haha. If I let the GLM automatic calibration as it is I'm gonna have no bass at all

 

[unpluggged]

Yeah sounds really great, I guess I'll do a mix of both approach !

Yep, one does not exclude the other

Thanks for your advice even if I don't appreciate your slightly arrogant tone in the background

Don't be offended, it's just my manner of expressing myself here, considering that English is not my native language I glad to be helpful.

 

[Berdri]

Yep, one does not exclude the other


Don't be offended, it's just my manner of expressing myself here, considering that English is not my native language I glad to be helpful.

Sure no problem at all

 

[Kyle_PL]

View attachment 406442

This calibration plot look really bad (+6dB filter - bad for amplifier, and woofer mechanics). I think that was Your manual tweaks - right?

 

[holdingpants01]

The best results would be allowing the automatic calibration flatten the curve and then use Sound Character Profiler to add bass, if you like a lot of it you can use high shelf at the same frequency as the low shelf so you can create as much bass boost as necessary. But allowing GLM to flatten the peaks first, then adding it after it is free of peaks is the proper way to go

 

[Berdri]

This calibration plot look really bad (+6dB filter - bad for amplifier, and woofer mechanics). I think that was Your manual tweaks - right?

yes it is auto cali and then manual adjustement on the bass notches

 

[Kyle_PL]

My recommendation would be +3dB

Is better to cut (if He want to boost bass, it's better to cut high frequency)

 

[Berdri]

The best results would be allowing the automatic calibration flatten the curve and then use Sound Character Profiler to add bass, if you like a lot of it you can use high shelf at the same frequency as the low shelf so you can create as much bass boost as necessary. But allowing GLM to flatten the peaks first, then adding it after it is free of peaks is the proper way to go

Sounds like a resonable idea I'll do that