A silly (ignorant) question concerning stereo speaker response - advance apology!

[TLEDDY]

Recently in my late night insomniac wandering around the ether I found a comment concerning a Billy Joel recording.

Joel´s piece - “Innocent Man” has a ´finger-snap´ that reoccurs in the background. The theory propounded suggested that if one perceived the finger snap to be consistent in spatial location, the your system was doing a good stereo imaging performance.

In my bedroom system (Roon Nucleus; Cambridge EVO 75 streamer; KEF R3 in equilateral triangle to the listening position + Dual Subs) the finger snaps are to the left, well to the left of the speaker and a bit behind the plane of the group, maintaining that illusion at each instance.

1. Does this subjective test make sense?

2. If you try the test on any/all of your own equipment-
A. Do you hear the finger snap
B. If so, where do you perceive it in the sound field?

3. Do you consider the last few minutes reading this as time lost that you can never get back?

Tillman the Insomniac Psicopath (sic)

 

[Blumlein 88]

Where do you hear it with headphones?

 

[TLEDDY]

Where do you hear it with headphones?

Blush… I have not done that as yet. Sadly, I am disabled and now will await caregiver assistance to get
One of my headphones out and give it a run and report back. Thank you for the question!

Tillman

 

[kemmler3D]

Recently in my late night insomniac wandering around the ether I found a comment concerning a Billy Joel recording.

Joel´s piece - “Innocent Man” has a ´finger-snap´ that reoccurs in the background. The theory propounded suggested that if one perceived the finger snap to be consistent in spatial location, the your system was doing a good stereo imaging performance.

In my bedroom system (Roon Nucleus; Cambridge EVO 75 streamer; KEF R3 in equilateral triangle to the listening position + Dual Subs) the finger snaps are to the left, well to the left of the speaker and a bit behind the plane of the group, maintaining that illusion at each instance.

1. Does this subjective test make sense?

2. If you try the test on any/all of your own equipment-
A. Do you hear the finger snap
B. If so, where do you perceive it in the sound field?

3. Do you consider the last few minutes reading this as time lost that you can never get back?

Tillman the Insomniac Psicopath (sic)

Test sounds pretty sensible to me. I hear the snap to the left but not outside the speaker, it's about 10 degrees inside the left speaker on my desktop system. It's a nearfield setup, though.

 

[TLEDDY]

Test sounds pretty sensible to me. I hear the snap to the left but not outside the speaker, it's about 10 degrees inside the left speaker on my desktop system. It's a nearfield setup, though.

Very kind of you - both the words and for trying it out!

I do not have a nearfield system at this time… hopefully others will replicate the experiment and report back. Come the dawn, I will set up headphones as suggested by Blumlein88. I hope others post their results herein as well.

Tillman

 

[SSS]

Listened to the song from Amazon Music as Ultra HD. The fingersnip is located at the middle between left speaker and the center on my PC nearfield system.

 

[TLEDDY]

Listened to the song from Amazon Music as Ultra HD. The fingersnip is located at the middle between left speaker and the center on my PC nearfield system.

Excellent! Seems similar to kemmler3D reported earlier!

Thank you!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Okay so in headphones I hear it very slightly left of center.
Over speakers at the centered LP it is maybe left 20% of the way between center and the left speaker.
If I move over to the left, it moves left also until it sounds about where the left speaker is when I am slightly outside the left speaker.
Moving right of center LP, it moves over to sound about centered and never changes as I continue over to the right.

This is over Revel F208 speakers which are roughly 60 degrees apart from the primary LP. Moderately large room probably what I'd call mid-field. 11 feet from speakers.

 

[Galliardist]

Okay so in headphones I hear it very slightly left of center.
Over speakers at the centered LP it is maybe left 20% of the way between center and the left speaker.
If I move over to the left, it moves left also until it sounds about where the left speaker is when I am slightly outside the left speaker.
Moving right of center LP, it moves over to sound about centered and never changes as I continue over to the right.

This is over Revel F208 speakers which are roughly 60 degrees apart from the primary LP. Moderately large room probably what I'd call mid-field. 11 feet from speakers.

I have the same through headphones - Tidal 24/96, so maybe a different mix.

 

[solderdude]

A short glance of this thread shows that the finger snap can be perceived from anywhere slightly to the left to far left.
At least the test can be used to determine if one has L and R swapped (when using the same recording).
I would not place any more weight on this 'test' than that.
I'm sure it will be perceived in the same position each time for every listener.

Using YT studio recording.
Calibrated nearfield: between left and middle sharply defined in a position
HD800: left of the center a bit broader spread in positioning (caused by the reverb?).

Interestingly in live performances the same snap can be heard to the left yet his voice (same mic as voice) is mixed in the center.
At one time he forgot to snap and the same snap was still heard on the left 1:55.

Also the snap sounds equally 'loud' when done behind his back and next to the mic.
Seems to be a sample with a fixed pan ?

 

[Timmy]

Slightly right of center here, with speakers as well as with headphones.

 

[solderdude]

maybe check the L R connection on your source ?

 

[Tassin]

From Spotify I hear the finger snaps ... dead center.

 

[Timmy]

maybe check the L R connection on your source ?

Just to be sure, I checked with Adeva’s »Musical Freedom« once again. Listen to the tune at least from minute 2:45 on

 

[Philbo King]

Here's an interesting set of files that give a more complete picture of your systems imaging/soundstage capabilities.

Online LEDR™ Sound Test | Listening Environment Diagnostic Recording Test

Audio Test Tones : check your stereo system for correct imaging

www.audiocheck.net

 

[DonH56]

There are a lot of musical (and now movie) sources I've used over the years for imaging tests, but for a more analytical approach I tend to use sine wave tones swept from LF to HF slowly or manually. I play a 440 Hz (tuning A) or 1 kHz (common test) tone with a mono source and make sure it is centered. Then I sweep the tone up and down the spectrum to see if its position varies.

I cannot remember the old recordings I used the most, but one had a sax solo that was perfectly centered and went up and down the scale. (Measurements and a conversation with the mastering engineer confirmed.) When the sax drifted side-to-side I knew I needed to tweak things for better imaging.

 

[Esprit]

Right in the middle for both the song on Tidal and Apple Music.
It's not even that much in the background because it's the singer's finger snap that's perfectly in the center.
I listened to it, positioning myself at the vertex of the equilateral triangle (3 meter side), with a pair of Adam Audio.

 

[TLEDDY]

As I promised earlier, I tried the test on two different headphones!

The apparent position changed radically! The perception is very slightly to the left of center!

Now, I will try the speakers in three other rooms and check the results!

So… a work in progress!

Tillman

 

[Sokel]

Why bother with songs?
Using the test below one can determine all directions (and there's more tests on the site for the rest of the scene and all the clues)

Virtual Acoustic Space | Auditory Neuroscience

auditoryneuroscience.com

 

[Timmy]

During the intro of that Billy Joel tune I counted five »claps«. So I tried to locate and to isolate them

Looks quite obvious that there’s a good deal of deviation between them. But all of them do seem to have a slight »left tendency«: