• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

A Short History of High-End Audio Cables

SIY

Grand Contributor
Technical Expert
Joined
Apr 6, 2018
Messages
10,383
Likes
24,749
Location
Alfred, NY

Willem

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
3,654
Likes
5,276
The guy is clearly intelligent and I think he is enjoying the stupidity of his victims no end. He is an extreme example of what you can get away with on Audiogon.
 
Last edited:

AudioSceptic

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 31, 2019
Messages
2,691
Likes
2,534
Location
Northampton, UK

ahofer

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
4,947
Likes
8,694
Location
New York City
No, he's apparently taking the suckers' money.
Extraordinary cynicism. He says some weird stuff. For instance he sometimes breaks into conversations to brag that his (and his only) Walkman is superior to the equipment under discussion. Always seems more trollish than sales-y.
 

ajawamnet

Active Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
288
Likes
460
If you have a look at the system pictures on Audiogon, you will see that nearly everyone has fallen for the cable risers. And there’s a fellow named Schroeder there who never misses an opportunity to tout some interconnect doubling method he invented. These claims meet almost zero skepticism. When you ask for evidence, everyone treats you as if you dropped a turd in their punchbowl. Your system/ears must not be good enough. Or, “believe what you want to believe”. Well, ditto.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cable-risers-elevators-revisited

Incidentally, I have a strong suspicion that "Geoffkait" who appears in this and other notorious threads, is an elaborate troll. Sort of like the twitter account "Titania McGrath".


That's funny....

But there is a real reason for something like that - during MIL-STD-461G testing:

" All cables shall be supported 5 cm above the ground plane with non-conductive material such as wood or foam. "
461setup.png

I just spent an ungodly amount of time at Pax River testing my stuff. Silly big hanger there for EMI -
http://thehowlandcompany.com/RDT-E_facilities/ASIL.htm

ACETEF-ASIL.jpg

Note the size of the scissor lift on the right...

Yea - this is where all the fake voodoo goes out the window and the real voodoo smacks you in 'da face....
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,408
Location
Seattle Area, USA
Yawn....

Are cable snake oil claims even worth having yet another thread about?

It's all been said before, a bazillion times, and nothing has changed over the decades.

I mean, echo chambers are great tribal self-affirmation devices, but what is anyone doing about this "problem"?
 

ajawamnet

Active Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
288
Likes
460
Except standard wood framing does not a ground plane make.


No, the table has a copper ground plane on it, tied to the chamber ground/faraday cage with flat copper straps and measured with a millohmeter to be <2 millohm. You can see the copper bonding in the drawing to the EUT, The LISNs and the chamber itself.

http://everyspec.com/MIL-STD/MIL-STD-0300-0499/MIL-STD-461G_53571/

As I mentioned I spent a silly amount of time in various EMI chambers over the past few months... Pax being one. Cable BS here ain't gonna get you thru the science...
 
Last edited:

ajawamnet

Active Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
288
Likes
460
I said cable lifters in your HOME don't have a ground plane. In fact my cables are always on lifters, 2X8 fir or spruce on 16" centers with an oak spacer. :)

So you need some copper... I got a guy that sell it to you real cheap:
cast_haney.jpg

He sells audio cables too...
 

ahofer

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
4,947
Likes
8,694
Location
New York City
Yawn....

Are cable snake oil claims even worth having yet another thread about?

It's all been said before, a bazillion times, and nothing has changed over the decades.

I mean, echo chambers are great tribal self-affirmation devices, but what is anyone doing about this "problem"?

Fair. Frankly, when someone posts praising or denigrating the sound of different cables, I just move along. But when these scam artists pour scorn and derision on contributors who claim *not* to hear a difference (sometimes that's me), I feel compelled to call them out.

I don't know if it slows them down at all. As I said, it's a compulsion. But I do think there are observers in those threads whose beliefs are not yet hardened by huge purchases, an inferiority complex, or a financial interest.
 

Julf

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
3,004
Likes
3,998
Location
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Fair. Frankly, when someone posts praising or denigrating the sound of different cables, I just move along. But when these scam artists pour scorn and derision on contributors who claim *not* to hear a difference (sometimes that's me), I feel compelled to call them out.

I don't know if it slows them down at all. As I said, it's a compulsion. But I do think there are observers in those threads whose beliefs are not yet hardened by huge purchases, an inferiority complex, or a financial interest.

And there is all that psychological research that people get convinced by not just facts, but the number of people sharing an opinion. If we don't speak up against the woo, they get more and more converts simply because of "everybody seems to agree, so it must be true".
 

JanRSmit

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Messages
54
Likes
21
Let’s for arguments sake assume one hears a difference, what could be a cause for this observation? Is it purely psychological, or something is different, but not yet been possible to measure, or ...?
Just wondering
 

Julf

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
3,004
Likes
3,998
Location
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Let’s for arguments sake assume one hears a difference, what could be a cause for this observation? Is it purely psychological, or something is different, but not yet been possible to measure, or ...?
Just wondering

Expectation and confirmation bias.
 

BDWoody

Chief Cat Herder
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
6,948
Likes
22,625
Location
Mid-Atlantic, USA. (Maryland)
Let’s for arguments sake assume one hears a difference, what could be a cause for this observation? Is it purely psychological, or something is different, but not yet been possible to measure, or ...?
Just wondering

If you can hear it, you can measure it.

Placebo effect and many kinds of bias will be what makes it sound different.
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,408
Location
Seattle Area, USA
But I do think there are observers in those threads whose beliefs are not yet hardened by huge purchases, an inferiority complex, or a financial interest.
And there is all that psychological research that people get convinced by not just facts, but the number of people sharing an opinion. If we don't speak up against the woo, they get more and more converts simply because of "everybody seems to agree, so it must be true".

True, but....

People have been speaking up against cable snake oil for decades.

I see no evidence that small scale interventions via internet debate moves the needle. Audioquest and Nordost are just as rich as ever.

Now a lawsuit, on the other hand, or a complaint to regulatory bodies about false advertising, that might be a different story.
 
Top Bottom