A reasonable (AB class) replacement for Yamaha A-S801 integrated amp

[Mieczyslaw1977]

The 1100/1200 range, and associated models, are very different animals to the admittedly very capable 801. If a demo is possible then go listen for yourself, like I said, a distinctly marked improvement. The 801 sounds flat and sterile in comparison to the rich, lush presentation of the upper range.

The difference between the 2100 and 1100 is negligible in comparison to the considerable leap forward from the 801 to the 110. The main benefit of the 2100 was the balanced circuit.

Also, the build quality is amongst the very best you can buy. They're built like tanks and feel incredibly plush.

I can safely say that selling the 1100 was one of my biggest Hifi regrets.

All that said, I'd still suggest a Purifi from @boXem | audio would be a far better option.

I would call the whole A-S701/801 range as competent, dynamic, neutral, but rather sharp. I had to tame it a bit in the treble, carefully selecting speakers and speaker cables. However, one good thing about my current integrated amp is: it can reflect every change I've made so far in my audio chain, even the smallest one, like changing a fuse.

Thank a lot, again. There is a possibility of comparison, I would only have to book it at the distributor/shop. When we talk about the beauty and build quality - I really like the Luxman LX-507 Mark II with its huge blue VU meters. Far out of my range, though.

BTW. I've hear the difference between the 1XXX and 2XXX is rather small, and doesn't reflect the difference in price. However, the 2XXX is internally balanced (not only that it has XLR inputs, like e.g. the above mentioned Rotel, or even Luxman 505 and 507), so I could finally use the balance outputs of my DAC and check, whether it makes a difference.

 

[Doodski]

The things improved much, after I had bought some rather simple mains/power filter (I wouldn't call it a conditioner):
https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/pure-ac4/?v=9b7d173b068d
I wouldn't call it a conditioner, and for sure not a high-end one.
Nevertheless it works better than the above power strip. My fiancee called it the best audio purchase of the year. I still think the little Topping D70S was the best purchase, however I do agree the thing improved. The amplifier is slightly filtered now, without any loss of its dynamics. Unfortunately, the story with sound degradation repeats itself, but the overall sound quality, including bass, is better now.

I don't see how this device improves the bass. The variation in the the AC waveforms are miniscule and any variation would be smoothed out by the power supply smoothing and filter caps.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

How so -- qualitatively or quantitatively?
This isn't meant combatively, I am genuinely curious: more power, more features, or something else?

I don't have any measuring equipment or the like. But the 801 and 1100 overlapped by about a month so I had plenty of time to compare them (on Kef R300 and Tannoy XT8F via WXA 50 & Tidal).

I'd been happy enough with the 801 up until that point. Switching to the 1100 felt to me like I'd finally entered the realms of 'high end". Details were present that I'd simply never, ever heard before until that point: bass textures, percussion skins etc. Quite genuinely a huge leap forward on my journey. I only sold it due to financial issues (other half being laid off).

Obviously, whether these improvements were due to better linearity or to my ears liking Yamaha's 'tuning' I cannot say.

 

[Mieczyslaw1977]

How so -- qualitatively or quantitatively?
This isn't meant combatively, I am genuinely curious: more power, more features, or something else?

They are weaker units - in terms of power amplifying - than A-S701/801.
So I guess he was writing about subjective impressions of how they sound.

Though the build is very interesting, with MOSFETS and floating power supply. Interesting from a technical point of view.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

I would call the whole A-S701/801 range as competent, dynamic, neutral, but rather sharp. I had to tame it a bit in the treble, carefully selecting speakers and speaker cables. However, one good thing about my current integrated amp is: it can reflect every change I've made so far in my audio chain, even the smallest one, like changing a fuse.

You what?

 

[Deleted member 23424]

They are weaker units - in terms of power amplifying - than A-S701/801.
So I guess he was writing about subjective impressions of how they sound.

Though the build is very interesting, with MOSFETS and floating power supply. Interesting from a technical point of view.

I've owned the 1000, 2000, 1100, 2100, 501, 801 and RN604. What "he was writing about" was that the 1100 and associated products are not comparable to the others whatsoever. The gulf in class is huge.

 

[Mieczyslaw1977]

I don't see how this device improves the bass. The variation in the the AC waveforms are miniscule and any variation would be smoothed out by the power supply smoothing and filter caps.
View attachment 170149

I haven't got the faintest idea, how it works. So I can only describe the subjective listening experience of myself and my friends.
The only thing I know is: the A-S801 used to be unfiltered with the Supra power strip, and the sound degradation (including disappearing bass) was far worse. Now, it's mildly filtered, and whatever this filter does, the bass is stronger and more audible, I can even feel the vibrations.

Now, pardon me, I organise a small party and have to leave the forums for the evening.

 

[ZolaIII]

I haven't got the faintest idea, how it works. So I can only describe the subjective listening experience of myself and my friends.
The only thing I know is: the A-S801 used to be unfiltered with the Supra power strip, and the sound degradation (including disappearing bass) was far worse. Now, it's mildly filtered, and whatever this filter does, the bass is stronger and more audible, I can even feel the vibrations.

Now, pardon me, I organise a small party and have to leave the forums for the evening.

Get the A-S801 checked it could be some condenser leaking and have a nice time.

 

[LTig]

I would call the whole A-S701/801 range as competent, dynamic, neutral, but rather sharp. I had to tame it a bit in the treble, carefully selecting speakers and speaker cables. However, one good thing about my current integrated amp is: it can reflect every change I've made so far in my audio chain, even the smallest one, like changing a fuse.

Uh huh. This claim cries for proper controls.

 

[mhardy6647]

I don't have any measuring equipment or the like. But the 801 and 1100 overlapped by about a month so I had plenty of time to compare them (on Kef R300 and Tannoy XT8F via WXA 50 & Tidal).

I'd been happy enough with the 801 up until that point. Switching to the 1100 felt to me like I'd finally entered the realms of 'high end". Details were present that I'd simply never, ever heard before until that point: bass textures, percussion skins etc. Quite genuinely a huge leap forward on my journey. I only sold it due to financial issues (other half being laid off).

Obviously, whether these improvements were due to better linearity or to my ears liking Yamaha's 'tuning' I cannot say.

Thanks for sharing your impressions!

I've gotta say, your comments don't not speak well of the 801, from my perspective. Longtime Yamaha fanboy that I am, I am surprised and disappointed to read that the 801 was failing to deliver the goods in terms of...umm... resolution or macro-details or microdetails or whatever was missing from the 801s presentation (and, no, I am not being facetious). Yamaha historically delivered exceptionally neutral and balanced performance from the bottom of the line to the top, IMO and IME.

The gulf in class is huge.

Howso? What are the relevant parameters; is it just output power (because, except with truly sadistic loudspeaker loads... which are, admittedly fashionable in the current era) I am extremely skeptical of amplifier power as a discriminator of amplifier performance.

Is the "gulf in class" meant to imply that Yamaha proffers junk at lower price points to push consumers to the more expensive stuff? They certainly didn't do so in the past.

And my sincere apology if I am misinterpreting your post!

 

[DanielT]

Thanks for sharing your impressions!

I've gotta say, your comments don't not speak well of the 801, from my perspective. Longtime Yamaha fanboy that I am, I am surprised and disappointed to read that the 801 was failing to deliver the goods in terms of...umm... resolution or macro-details or microdetails or whatever was missing from the 801s presentation (and, no, I am not being facetious). Yamaha historically delivered exceptionally neutral and balanced performance from the bottom of the line to the top, IMO and IME.


Howso? What are the relevant parameters; is it just output power (because, except with truly sadistic loudspeaker loads... which are, admittedly fashionable in the current era) I am extremely skeptical of amplifier power as a discriminator of amplifier performance.

Is the "gulf in class" meant to imply that Yamaha proffers junk at lower price points to push consumers to the more expensive stuff? They certainly didn't do so in the past.

And my sincere apology if I am misinterpreting your post!

But it does look quite ok.

Yamaha A-S801 Integrated Amplifier Review

The Yamaha A-S801 is an honestly rated 100 watt/ch integrated amplifier with a built in high resolution USB-B DAC to power a serious dedicated two-channel or upscale PC system with pristine fidelity.

www.audioholics.com

 

[Deleted member 23424]

Thanks for sharing your impressions!

I've gotta say, your comments don't not speak well of the 801, from my perspective. Longtime Yamaha fanboy that I am, I am surprised and disappointed to read that the 801 was failing to deliver the goods in terms of...umm... resolution or macro-details or microdetails or whatever was missing from the 801s presentation (and, no, I am not being facetious). Yamaha historically delivered exceptionally neutral and balanced performance from the bottom of the line to the top, IMO and IME.


Howso? What are the relevant parameters; is it just output power (because, except with truly sadistic loudspeaker loads... which are, admittedly fashionable in the current era) I am extremely skeptical of amplifier power as a discriminator of amplifier performance.

Is the "gulf in class" meant to imply that Yamaha proffers junk at lower price points to push consumers to the more expensive stuff? They certainly didn't do so in the past.

And my sincere apology if I am misinterpreting your post!

I bought the 801 for £549, retail. For the price it was excellent.

The 1100 cost me £1200, retail. It also provides excellent value for money.

There is far more to the difference between the two than "power ratings".

Power ratings have nothing to do with anything. I could buy a cheap 500W amp for less than an exceptional 50W amp. Doesn't make the 500W amp a better amp.

Your post makes little sense to me, also not being facetious. Do you think that a brand's offer should all perform equally well regardless of price, circuit design, amplifier type etc etc etc?

The 801 is the peak of Yam's high street consumer range. The 1100 is the start of their high end range. They're not apples v apples.

One is built to extract the maximum performance to meet a 'sweet spot' price point.

The other is built to meet a performance level and costs what it costs.

The 801 wasn't "failing to deliver the goods in terms of...umm... resolution or macro-details or microdetails or whatever was missing from the 801s presentation (and, no, I am not being facetious)" it delivered exceptional performance within its price range, better than all the competitor's products that I tried.

Their higher end product performs better.

 

[DanielT]

I bought the 801 for £549, retail. For the price it was excellent.

The 1100 cost me £1200, retail. It also provides excellent value for money.

There is far more to the difference between the two than "power ratings".

Power ratings have nothing to do with anything. I could buy a cheap 500W amp for less than an exceptional 50W amp. Doesn't make the 500W amp a better amp.

Your post makes little sense to me, also not being facetious. Do you think that a brand's offer should all perform equally well regardless of price, circuit design, amplifier type etc etc etc?

The 801 is the peak of Yam's high street consumer range. The 1100 is the start of their high end range. They're not apples v apples.

One is built to extract the maximum performance to meet a 'sweet spot' price point.

The other is built to meet a performance level and costs what it costs.

The 801 wasn't "failing to deliver the goods in terms of...umm... resolution or macro-details or microdetails or whatever was missing from the 801s presentation (and, no, I am not being facetious)" it delivered exceptional performance within its price range, better than all the competitor's products that I tried.

Their higher end product performs better.

Two amplifiers with the same power, inaudible distortion and straight frequency response as well as the same ability to handle heavy loads, low / large shifting impedance from the speakers, there is no audible difference between them, is there?

As far as I know, only frequency response, distortion and noise level determine how an amplifier performs

 

[Deleted member 23424]

As far as I know, only frequency response, distortion and noise level determine how an amplifier performs

Without wishing to repeat myself, I've owned most of the range at various points. The 1100 is a very different product to the box shifting consumer section of the brand.

The above statement is frankly absurd. My entire current system was bought following excellent measurements from this site. I don't buy poorly measuring devices. But to think you can assess every last amplifier, of any type, using just those 3 measurements is naive at best. I mean, why does Amir bother producing hundreds of different measurements if all we need is those three?

Have you heard either amplifier? Have you heard both? Have you had both in your room, at the same time? Have you used both excessively using various speakers? No?

But you know more than someone who has because of just three manufacturer produced measurements? Righto.

 

[ZolaIII]

@dOSs do you have measurements for that output stage employed in SA1100, SA2100 and are there less premium models of it?
Sunken stage has a wide Yamaha product range adoption and it's a rather; good, simple and cheap. It has it's flows being more sensitive to lo impedance loads and generally not doing that part all that great.

This is becoming complicating. We don't know what's wrong with either AS801 or owner wishes and perception. It needs a restart.

Edit: actually I suspect on speakers - Gato Audio FM-30 floor-standers (50-250 W, 4 Ohm).

 

[DanielT]

But to think you can assess every last amplifier, of any type, using just those 3 measurements is naive at best. I mean, why does Amir bother producing hundreds of different measurements if all we need is those three?

What are the other parameters in that case. In addition to the ones I mentioned?

Applicable amplifier that is.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

What are the other parameters in that case. In addition to the ones I mentioned?

Applicable amplifier that is.

If we knew that we wouldn't need this site, we wouldn't need different manufacturers, we wouldn't need different amps, we'd just need the magic circuit that produces your allegedly magic numbers.

Measurements are absolutely vital. They drive my every Hifi purchase. But thinking you know a product without even hearing it because you read a graph is, well.....

Regardless, a person asked for my subjective opinion of something I've owned and enjoyed. I provided it. I'm not really interested in the subsequent opinion of someone who's never even heard said device telling me what's wrong with my subjective opinion of the thing they've never heard because graphs.

Have a good evening.

EDIT: Said opinion requester then declared how they can hear their fuse, so I've even less reason to give any funks about this thread. A fuse. I would say I've heard it all now, but I haven't heard a fuse.

 

[DanielT]

Do not get angry now. It was just a statement.

Under harsh conditions, of course, two different amplifiers measured at 5 W can behave differently when the power is turned on more than that. Especially if one has more effect. It is probably driven later into clipping (that is, distortion).

Like this. Everything you attribute to the sound in the amplifier, clarity, "punsh" in the bass, ability to handle speakers and so on can be explained by distortion, noise and frequency response (or deviations around the said), as far as I know.

Then there is so much else than what I mentioned that plays a role for the whole when choosing hifi gadgets. I have a vintage HK 330C in the bedroom. But a modern Aiyima A07 TPA 3255 measures better, that is, sounds better (if it can handle loads from speakers in a sensible way) but I choose a HK 330C every day of the week anyway because of this, see photos.
(not mine in the pictures)

But it's me. My taste. Everyone can choose exactly what they want, of course. Nothing I indulge in.

Have a nice evening.

Edit:
Or Aiyima might sound better (not sure) than the HK 330C. It comes back to the question of at what level distortion becomes audible.
Nevermind. There are still speakers in the equation and they have usually much more distortion so most money, gun powder on them.

 

[mhardy6647]

You know, upon reflection, in the context of this thread, I've kind of lost interest in the 801 vs. 1100 imbroglio, since the discussion's going nowhere.

 

[mhardy6647]

This is becoming complicating. We don't know what's wrong with either AS801 or owner wishes and perception. It needs a restart.

Yup. I think you're right.