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A reasonable (AB class) replacement for Yamaha A-S801 integrated amp

Doodski

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Hm, lose power sometimes? Problems with the cooling?
The A-S501 amp will thermally roll back with a temperature increase as thermally sensed by IC 100 & IC102. The microprocessor IC502 will signal IC402 to roll back the volume signal going to the main amp circuitry. So yes, the amp can roll back the volume if it gets overheated.
 
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Willem

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My question is, why "a reputable EU manufacturer"? Do we (Europeans) have some technological advantages, that I'm not aware of?
I think you may not be aware that Hypex and Purifi are just modules used by other manufacturers. They were designed by a Belgian engineer who had previously worked for Philips. Hypex is a Dutch company, and Purifi is in Denmark. They both get their modules made in China. With these modules many companies can put together power amplifiers, and if you are remotely tech savvy you can even do it yourself with some. So in the end there are multiple power amplifier manufacturers who build very similar amplifiers with these modules. Some are cut price, and others pay a bit more attention, add some features (like Boxem with auto on/off), and give you a nicer case. If you are in the EU I would simply suggest getting one from an EU manufacturer as that will avoid having to pay import duties etc, and make support/repairs a bit easier.
 

DanielT

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The A-S501 amp will thermally roll back with a temperature increase as thermally sensed by IC 100 & IC102. The microprocessor IC502 will signal IC402 to roll back the volume signal going to the main amp circuitry. So yes, the amp can roll back the volume if it gets overheated.
If it works properly.

Yes, I know it can be far-fetched but if the amplifier varies in what it can perform, then ..
Or how Mieczyslaw1977 feel that it can
vary in performance, I should add
 

Doodski

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If it works properly.

Yes, I know it can be far-fetched but if the amplifier varies in what it can perform, then ..
Or how one feel that it can perform, I should add
The thermal protection is there for a reason. Because it is required and a nice safety feature. So for it to engage would not be surprising. It surely would require significant power/current levels and a lot of dust. Perhaps the unit is not well ventilated?
 

DanielT

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The thermal protection is there for a reason. Because it is required and a nice safety feature. So for it to engage would not be surprising. It surely would require significant power/current levels and a lot of dust. Perhaps the unit is not well ventilated?
Well, who knows. Can be imagination, can be a real problem. In that case, real problem troubleshooting. Either if you can do it yourself, maybe with help from here? Or to hand it in to a repairman, if you think it's worth it.

Is there a guarantee left?:)
 

Willem

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I am truly surprised by the observation that the amplifier seems to nearly shut off at times. I would first check/measure the electricity supply in your home to see if there really is an issue. Anyway, for an integrated amplifier that has it all, I would go for the NAD M33: plenty of clean power, and Dirac, all in one elegant package. The only bad part is the price. If you are prepared to give up on the idea of one box, you could have the same for half the price by combining a Dirac equipped DAC/preamp fromMiniDSP and a beefy Hypex amp. Boxem has Hypex and Purify amps with auto on/off, so you could hide the power amp out of sight and just have a small and quite elegant MiniDSP box in sight. That is what I would do, because the preamp with its modern dsp functionality is more than likely to be outdated much sooner than the power amplifier. In fact, that is more or less what I did: and RME-ADI-2 DAC in sight, and an old but refurbished Quad 606-2 power amplifier out of sight (switched by a master/slave power strip).
 

Doodski

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Well, who knows. Can be imagination, can be a real problem. In that case, real problem troubleshooting. Either if you can do it yourself, maybe with help from here? Or to hand it in to a repairman, if you think it's worth it.

Is there a guarantee left?:)
Need more details from the OP before diagnosing it as thermally challenged. :D
 

DanielT

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Need more details from the OP before diagnosing it as thermally challenged. :D
Certainly. :D

Problem with, variations on the electricity grid..Hmm. It can that but ...

51WziYlbpxL._SY445_SX342_QL70_ML2_.jpg
 
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TheBatsEar

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The new A-S1200 and A-S2200 have weaker power amps sections. I'm not willing to pay 3/4/5 times more for a weaker amp, no matter how much I like the external design, drooling to the VU meters (rather small in these cases).
I have had the A-S 701. The A-S 1200 is what i ended up with.

Power is 2x 100w 8 ohms, 2x 150w 4 ohms if i remember correctly. My speakers:
  • ATC SCM19 v2. lack sensitivity, but they still play very loud if i crank it up, louder than i will ever listen to.
  • Focal Chorus 826V, have better sensitivity, but they dip down below 3.2 ohms.
I think this amp has plenty of power for most.

I recommend you go somewhere where you can touch it. It's a beastly 25kg. Thick metal knobs, feet, enclosure, terminals and even remote. The quality is on an entirely different level compared to the A-S 701. Discrete phono preamp that measures superbly. Relais that take tone controls out of the signal path until they get used. Discrete input buffers. The power supply alone weighs as much as the A-S 701.

Also, it looks really sweet. The size of the VU-meters is smaller than the top line, but i can barely hide them with my mobile phone, so they aren't exactly tiny either. Maybe it looks that way because the A-S 1200 is a beefy box.

If it where a cat ;-):

1638462854846.jpg
 

TheBatsEar

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6) Yamaha A-S1200/2200/3200 all have 4x22000uF, which gives us a total of 88000uF filtering power.
a-s2200_ringkerntrafo_und_kondensatoren.jpg
This picture isn't a Yamaha A-S 1200. Looks like either A-S 1000 or 1200. Yamaha has moved from that transformator to ... something oval. Not that it matters.

#Edit: I'm an idiot and this is a A-S 1200 indeed. It was the previous A-S 1000 and 1100 that had an oval transformer.
 
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I owned and enjoyed an 801 for a couple of years. I moved on to an A-S1100. The A-S1100 was a dramatically marked improvement.

That model was the beginning of the return to MOSFET. I'm not suggesting MOSFET possess magical powers here, just pointing out that the upper Yam range went through a huge redesign (for the better) at that point.

I've also owned a 2100, which offered a perceived improvement on the 1100, but a marginal one.

If you're genuinely hung up on having an AB amp, look at the 1100 or 2100 (I have no experience of the recent updates 1200 and 2200, might be even better?).

Personally, I'd suggest you bin AB and get a Purifi or the like.
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience form the practice. :)

So, putting the measurements aside for a while, could you please describe the sound changes? Subjectively, like bass, midrange, treble, soundstage etc. It so happens both Rotel and Yamaha share the same dealer/distributor in Poland, and there is an audio store in my city, so a direct comparison of e.g. Rotel RA-1592 MK2, Yamaha A-S1200 and Yamaha A-S2200 is possible. :D

@ Bombadil: Anthem STR integrated (the older version) used to be available in Poland, but not any more. However, it used to cost about 24000PLN, which is more or less 6000USD, so double the price I could theoretically afford. There are no used units offered for sale ATM. So, if somebody has bought it, he/she is satisfied and wants to keep it.
 
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This picture isn't a Yamaha A-S 1200. Looks like either A-S 1000 or 1200. Yamaha has moved from that transformator to ... something oval. Not that it matters.
This picture comes from a German review of Yamaha A-S2200. They introduced toroidal transformers in the new 1XXX/2XXX/3XXX series.
 
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Have you measured the AC voltage at the wall plug @ different times of the day to confirm and document the AC voltage variation(s)? Vmax and Vmin are very handy to analyze what is occurring or not. If you could safely measure the variations over a day's period then we can better understand what is occurring. In my experience the voltage increases are after local consumers power down and before they power up. I've been through a variable line voltage issue before. It was the AC supply to the building and apparently the local commercial power users drawing lotsa current and causing voltage decreases.


The application of the capacitance in the Topping D70s DAC is very different than a integrated amplifier's main power supply. The regulators in the pic for the D70 are separately smoothed out and the total capacitance does not apply to one smooth voltage. It is for more than a couple of voltages according to that pic. So the comparison is not realistic nor apples to apples... et cetera.


The voltage regulation for the digital and analogue sections of this Jay's Audio CDT2-MK3 CD player are most likely separately regulated. That means that if I where to make a educated guess there are maybe 2 +/- supplies, 4 voltage regulators on the PCB and each requires smoothing caps. So again the total capacitance is not adding up to a single voltage output line. It appears impressive although at the circuitry level the numbers are decent although not super high.
4b933e_9534503b875d47fb8f8c44fd43579b19~mv2.webp


Something more powerful does not mean it handles the stuff you listed better. If you are experiencing a decrease in power/voltage level decreases during the daily cycle of mains voltage variations then yes a bigger amp will provide more power and it will maybe still be susceptible to the stuff that you listed.

If you are experiencing a loss of amplifier power over the days' cycle then you may have a decrease in available voltage from the mains provider.
If you want more wattage from your amp you can get more with a more powerful amp but the decreased voltage issue at the wall if present will still be there.


This device does not compensate for the decrease in the available voltage from the mains supply issue. It cannot and does not do that. Don't waste your money on this.
@ Doodski, I agree with everything you have written. Thank you very much for your post. :)
I have a rather simple mains/power filter, which measures voltage. The voltage is stable and rather high, if not too high, stays around 240V, fluctuating between 238 and 242V. So, it must be some other electrical crap, that causes the sound degradation.

I can describe my observations from Monday until Friday. I have my own micro company, so that I can work from home, if I like, and I did this week. Here we go:
1) In the morning and before noon everything sounds good/very good. I don't have to turn the volume knob up to 12 o'clock to hear it: 9 o'clock is enough to hear everything sounds fine and the bass is present and strong (if it is present in the recording).
2) The sound starts to degrade in the afternoon, let's say about 3 or 4 PM. It's getting worse in the evening. When I has a simple power strip, I had to turn the volume down, or use the mute function (in Yamaha's case it means -20dB) in order not to hear it.
3) Things are improving late in the evening. But not always. If I want to listen seriously, sitting on the sweet spot on my sofa, and before 10 PM (so that my neighbours can't call the police ;) ) the sound quality is sometimes good, sometimes very good.
4) Late at night (I'm an owl), if turn the volume gently up for a while , everything sounds brilliant. Always!

Some other observations:
  • Washing machine test: my washing machine is in the bathroom, which has another circuit than my living room. However, when I turn it on, the bass disappears, even if the rest is rather OK! Laundry finished, the bass is back! :D
  • Power strip: I used to have an audio power strip, but rather a simple one, and the above described symptoms of sound degradation were even worse. Sometimes I couldn't listen to anything before 10 PM - I'm not talking about a disappearing bass only. In September this year I bought a rather simple mains/power filter and the situation is better, however far from optimal.
  • Open air festival: there was an open air festival in the neighbourhood (old air port from 1920s) in the summer this year. It was powered from some transformers form the other part of the city. My neighbourhood emptied - almost everyone went there, and me and my fiancee were listening to some music: it never had sounded better before than that night.
So, basically I agree, that buying a more powerful integrated amplifier will not solve the source of the problem.
Apart from my dire need to buy a "better" one ;), I really like the direction towards which this thread is going. Thank you, and the other guys for comments about electricity/power problems. You've been very helpful.
 

Doodski

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So, basically I agree, that buying a more powerful integrated amplifier will not solve the source of the problem.
Apart from my dire need to buy a "better" one ;), I really like the direction towards which this thread is going. Thank you, and the other guys for comments about electricity/power problems. You've been very helpful.
Is the amplifier running warm, cool or hot? If hot, is it really hot the touch?
 
OP
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Need more details from the OP before diagnosing it as thermally challenged. :D
It doesn't shut off, it is not even warm. As I described in details above, the sound quality changes during the day and night: the bass was only an example. There is some guarantee left, as I bought it in summer 2019, registered it, and I got 3 years guarantee here in Poland. :)

As describe above - the voltage doesn't drop, it is even too high, so it shouldn't be an issue, or source of the problem here. ;)
DC offset also is not a problem, as there is no humming of the EL transformer. The amp is dead silent, apart from some relays clicking, like e.g. by changing the speakers terminals.

As I wrote, moving from some audio power strip (Supra) the issues diminished. The amplifier was in the only unfiltered socket, because even the mildest filtration killed its dynamics. However, the sources benefited from the EMI/RFI filtration - the CD transport was in the 3rd socket, the DAC in the 4th (so moderate filtration). I moved the power strip to my second, computer audio system with some good results.
http://www.jenving.com/products/view/mains-block-md06-eu-sp-switch-3024000329

The things improved much, after I had bought some rather simple mains/power filter (I wouldn't call it a conditioner):
https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/pure-ac4/?v=9b7d173b068d
I wouldn't call it a conditioner, and for sure not a high-end one. :p
Nevertheless it works better than the above power strip. My fiancee called it the best audio purchase of the year. I still think the little Topping D70S was the best purchase, however I do agree the thing improved. The amplifier is slightly filtered now, without any loss of its dynamics. Unfortunately, the story with sound degradation repeats itself, but the overall sound quality, including bass, is better now.
 
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Thanks a lot for sharing your experience form the practice. :)

So, putting the measurements aside for a while, could you please describe the sound changes? Subjectively, like bass, midrange, treble, soundstage etc.

The 1100/1200 range, and associated models, are very different animals to the admittedly very capable 801. If a demo is possible then go listen for yourself, like I said, a distinctly marked improvement. The 801 sounds flat and sterile in comparison to the rich, lush presentation of the upper range.

The difference between the 2100 and 1100 is negligible in comparison to the considerable leap forward from the 801 to the 110. The main benefit of the 2100 was the balanced circuit.

Also, the build quality is amongst the very best you can buy. They're built like tanks and feel incredibly plush.

I can safely say that selling the 1100 was one of my biggest Hifi regrets.

All that said, I'd still suggest a Purifi from @boXem | audio would be a far better option.
 
OP
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Is the amplifier running warm, cool or hot? If hot, is it really hot the touch?
With moderate volume levels it stays cool. It only gets warm, when I listen really loud (11 or 12 o'clock), and there are large dynamic swings (e.g. Nightwish "Once" - some sort of symphonic metal music with orchestral parts). I think it's normal.
 

mhardy6647

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I owned and enjoyed an 801 for a couple of years. I moved on to an A-S1100. The A-S1100 was a dramatically marked improvement.
How so -- qualitatively or quantitatively?
This isn't meant combatively, I am genuinely curious: more power, more features, or something else?
 
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