A Question For Genelec Owners.

[Shadrach]

I have a pair of Genelec 8030C.
They are on stands.
I want to match the axis a couple of degrees downward from horizontal.
The problem is there isn't a flat surface on them.
What do other Genelec owners do to make sure the listening axis is the same for both speakers?

 

[Pe8er]

I know you already have stands, so this might not be useful…these Genelec stands allow for precise angle adjustment:

8000-325B/W Table stand L-shape - Genelec.com

L-shape table stand for vertical and horizontal positioning.

www.genelec.com

Before I got these stands, I used to adjust the speakers by eye and then check in GRADE report.

 

[Shadrach]

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately my setup isn't really suitable for the stands you've linked to.
There is a small possibly flat surface where the stand you mention fixes to the speaker back.
I can make a rough estimate using a spirit level placed on this surface but it's not ideal.
I'm mainly curious as to how others have gone about the problem especially those who employ room correction.

 

[Tangband]

I have a pair of Genelec 8030C.
They are on stands.
I want to match the axis a couple of degrees downward from horizontal.
The problem is there isn't a flat surface on them.
What do other Genelec owners do to make sure the listening axis is the same for both speakers?

I have done some experiments with 8330 and my 8340.
In my opinion, the sound is best in a normal livingroom with a loudspeakerstand about 60-63 cm high , worse sound with 50 cm and rather good at 70 cm . This is regardless of tilting the speakers , and I guess it depends on less floor bouncing energy reaching the ears with stands that higher than 60 cm .

 

[Recluse-Animator]

Just put a piece of angled wood underneath the stands.
This isn't rocket science.

 

[Sancus]

The best thing I can think of would be screwing a couple of long M6 screws part way into the back and balancing a level on that. Or one of the adapters meant to screw into the speaker, if available.

Considering all the other things that can be off(your seating position and chair/sofa, floor not flat, stands not perfectly straight, etc), and the inherent imprecision of a basic spirit level, I sort of doubt you could manage 1 degree of precision with any speaker.

Granted I have Genelec Ones, but even the 8030C have good enough vertical dispersion that I think you would need to be off by at least 5 degrees before there was any chance of audibility. Unless you were right at the border of the crossover null to begin with, but then you'd have to be like 10 degrees above the axis to start with.

 

[Shadrach]

I have done some experiments with 8330 and my 8340.
In my opinion, the sound is best in a normal livingroom with a loudspeakerstand about 60-63 cm high , worse sound with 50 cm and rather good at 70 cm . This is regardless of tilting the speakers , and I guess it depends on less floor bouncing energy reaching the ears with stands that higher than 60 cm .

Interesting. My stands are exactly 63cm tall.
I also found 70 cm good when I stood up, but not sat down.

 

[Shadrach]

The best thing I can think of would be screwing a couple of long M6 screws part way into the back and balancing a level on that. Or one of the adapters meant to screw into the speaker, if available.

Considering all the other things that can be off(your seating position and chair/sofa, floor not flat, stands not perfectly straight, etc), and the inherent imprecision of a basic spirit level, I sort of doubt you could manage 1 degree of precision with any speaker.

Granted I have Genelec Ones, but even the 8030C have good enough vertical dispersion that I think you would need to be off by at least 5 degrees before there was any chance of audibility. Unless you were right at the border of the crossover null to begin with, but then you'd have to be like 10 degrees above the axis to start with.

As a Genelec owner, assuming you have the isopod stands that allow for tllting the speaker relative to it's stand, you'll understand the problem.
There is no reference mark on the speaker and isopod stand to let one know when the speaker is vetical relative to it's stand.

With rectangular speakers in the past it's very easy. A cheap builders lazer level will do the job at any distance you are liable to encounter in a domestic setting.

With the Genelecs with the isopod stands and no reference but by eye it's not so easy.

 

[Shadrach]

Just put a piece of angled wood underneath the stands.
This isn't rocket science.

It's that the speaker moves relative to the stand that comes with it that's the problem and the speaker doesn't have any flat areas.

 

[Shadrach]

Granted I have Genelec Ones, but even the 8030C have good enough vertical dispersion that I think you would need to be off by at least 5 degrees before there was any chance of audibility. Unless you were right at the border of the crossover null to begin with, but then you'd have to be like 10 degrees above the axis to start with.

In general I agree with you; I shouldn't notice. I'm not at all confident I'm within 5 degrees vertical to start with.

 

[Sancus]

With rectangular speakers in the past it's very easy. A cheap builders lazer level will do the job at any distance you are liable to encounter in a domestic setting.

if you have one of those line projecting laser levels you can line it up with the screw holes on the back of the speaker(or any other visual reference on the flat parts, to be honest) pretty easily I would think, no?

As a Genelec owner, assuming you have the isopod stands that allow for tllting the speaker relative to it's stand, you'll understand the problem.

Yeah, I get it. My speakers are on stands that attach to the rear screw holes so I don't really deal with the isopods, except for my center speaker, but well it's off axis unavoidably anyhow.

 

[Shadrach]

if you have one of those line projecting laser levels you can line it up with the screw holes on the back of the speaker(or any other visual reference on the flat parts, to be honest) pretty easily I would think, no?

The only area that is likely to be 90 degrees to the drivers axis is a small plate on the back. The plate that holds the filter switching, power etc is at the bottom rear of the speakers and let into the body so the enclosure body shrouds it. Other than that there isn't a single flat area on the speaker body.
It's very frustrating because I want to make some measurements and I want the driver axis to match and point downwards a couple of degrees. This should give me a sweet spot at concentrated listening position, approximatley 1.2 metres and with the aid of some measurements , a decent response at the end of the room where I spend most time. A couple of degrees out starts to look like a lot 4 metres away. Get one tilting up by 2 degrees and the other tilting down and at 4 metres away you've got a bit of a hole.

 

[MAB]

Yes, I understand your problem. And yes it did drive me a bit nuts. I used my eye and a framing square.

I have Ones, so I was able to use the concave waveguide to good effect. Turns out my eye was pretty close. I don’t know if the framing square would work for you. Seems the woofer is uniformly recessed, but I dunno…

 

[RobL]

Magnetic Laser Level

Stick it on the back plate, point the laser at the ceiling and measure from the back wall.

 

[G|force]

As a Genelec owner, assuming you have the isopod stands that allow for tllting the speaker relative to it's stand, you'll understand the problem.
There is no reference mark on the speaker and isopod stand to let one know when the speaker is vetical relative to it's stand.

With rectangular speakers in the past it's very easy. A cheap builders lazer level will do the job at any distance you are liable to encounter in a domestic setting.

With the Genelecs with the isopod stands and no reference but by eye it's not so easy.

That is true. With no flat surfaces on any plane of the enclosure, it's not possible to even use a smartphone's gyro to perform a spirit level function... without some tweaks.

Maybe two degrees accurate, but if you have 3 or 4 small self adhesive rubber 'bumpons' feet and attach them to the back corners of a phone, at least you can make a stable base to place on the convex surface. I believe 3 is better than 4, but YMMV.

 

[aikofan]

I know you already have stands, so this might not be useful…these Genelec stands allow for precise angle adjustment:

8000-325B/W Table stand L-shape - Genelec.com

L-shape table stand for vertical and horizontal positioning.

www.genelec.com

Before I got these stands, I used to adjust the speakers by eye and then check in GRADE report.

I use these stands with my 8030c, but I’m unable to precisely align either the vertical tilt or horizontal toe-in on these stands. The vertical angle is continuously variable, so there’s no easy way to duplicate that angle on the other stand. And on the horizontal plane, if I align the stand bases, the attached speaker is slightly off, as if there’s a twist somewhere. So basically, I have to align the tilt on both axes by eyeballing, and when the speakers are aligned, the stand bases are visibly misaligned. Also, there’s no use matching toe-in to the millimeter, since I noticed one of my tweeters is slightly wall-eyed. But even though I’m unable to achieve a perfectly symmetrical set-up, I hear no channel imbalance, and I’m fine with it.

 

[Sancus]

The only area that is likely to be 90 degrees to the drivers axis is a small plate on the back.

Yes, so on the rear of the speaker there are two screw holes for mounting. These must be straight and aligned with the woofer/tweeter, or the speaker would not be straight when mounted to any stand. I doubt Genelec screwed that up, it's probably more likely that your average mdf speaker is not straight...

If you put two long M6 screws into those holes, they will also be straight. And you can line up a projecting laser level with those screws on both axes(from directly behind, and from the side) to give you leveling. Or just put a spirit level on top of them.

In my case, I already have an adapter attached to the screw holes so I can simply put my level on top of the adapter and it's decent(it would help if it was wider). A projected laser level lined up with protruding screws should be more accurate.

 

[Peluvius]

I have a pair of Genelec 8030C.
They are on stands.
I want to match the axis a couple of degrees downward from horizontal.
The problem is there isn't a flat surface on them.
What do other Genelec owners do to make sure the listening axis is the same for both speakers?

How far away are you sitting? I listen to mine at about 90cm so a few degrees isn't going to make much difference I would have thought?

I use isopods and measure the front distance to the stand, which is a flat surface.

 

[Shadrach]

Yes, so on the rear of the speaker there are two screw holes for mounting. These must be straight and aligned with the woofer/tweeter, or the speaker would not be straight when mounted to any stand. I doubt Genelec screwed that up, it's probably more likely that your average mdf speaker is not straight...

View attachment 232235

If you put two long M6 screws into those holes, they will also be straight. And you can line up a projecting laser level with those screws on both axes(from directly behind, and from the side) to give you leveling. Or just put a spirit level on top of them.

In my case, I already have an adapter attached to the screw holes so I can simply put my level on top of the adapter and it's decent(it would help if it was wider). A projected laser level lined up with protruding screws should be more accurate.

View attachment 232236

I've gone for your method combined with a level placed vertically on the plate with the srew holes in.
I guesstimate that my RH speaker was 3 degrees positive and the LH speaker 1 degree negative. I'll pick up some engineers screws later and see if I can lash up something more stable.
There doesn't seem to be much point in measuring for room correction until one has a reference speaker position.
I would like to get this about right before I start measuring with a sub in place.

 

[Shadrach]

How far away are you sitting? I listen to mine at about 90cm so a few degrees isn't going to make much difference I would have thought?

I use isopods and measure the front distance to the stand, which is a flat surface.

View attachment 232237

See post 12.