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A no-taking-sides, no judgment classification of the 4 types of Audiophile. "The audiophile bestiary".

pseudoid

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Collector-ism shows up in any hobby (that isn't "supposed to be" about collecting) where there is some functional aspect to the collected item, significant aesthetic and functional variation, some resale value, and a nominal practical use for the item. Examples: Audio gear, disc golf discs, mechanical keyboards, guns, knives, pens, etc. I am not surprised that some people hoard gear for the sake of the gear.
In our case, you truly can have your cake and eat it, as well.:)
Some people bust-hump and spend their hard-earned rewards on [ummm...] consumerism.
Obviously, this is not just a binary characteristic: Scaling consumerism from #0-to-#10:
It is particularly interesting to observe that there are others in the same demographics;
Those who do NOT collect 'things' would be assigned a #2 .
Sub-group (even in our ASR' lot) who are into collector-ism would be #5
Those who progress on to become part of hoard-ism would be #8+
I was born as #0; Gypsy until HS grad (#3); Collector after College (#5); Became borderline Hoarder mid-career (#7+).
Retirement now puts me in a 4th category of de-contenter-ism and I am now on a negative slope.
...In the hope of reaching #0 before I can RIP.
MUST Edit: ...with the exception of my music library that will NEVER be purged...
 
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kemmler3D

kemmler3D

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In our case, you truly can have your cake and eat it, as well.:)
Some people bust-hump and spend their hard-earned rewards on [ummm...] consumerism.
Obviously, this is not just a binary characteristic: scaling consumerism from #0-to-#10:
It is particularly interesting to observe that there are others in the same demographics;
Those who do NOT collect 'things' would be assigned a #2 .
Sub-group (even in our ASR' lot) who are into collector-ism would be #5
Those who progress on to become part of hoard-ism would be #8+
I was born as #0; Gypsy until HS grad (#3; Collector after College (#5); Became borderline Hoarder mid-career (#7+).
Retirement now puts me in a 4th category of de-contenter-ism and I am now on a negative slope.
...In the hope of reaching #0 before I can RIP.
Really interesting! I have a collector / consumer-ism bug, but counter it by trying to buy most of my gear secondhand. This gives you the helpful (but only partly true) narrative that you haven't really spent money, so much as parked it in equipment that you can sell for a similar price later on.

Unfortunately this narrative has been exposed for the clutter-inducing fantasy that it is - "no more flipping speakers" is the marital decree that came down. So that helps with my collector-ish tendency too.

Meanwhile my wife does collect adorable miniature toys and figurines by the dozens, but since the whole collection takes up less space than one floorstander, I can only make arguments based on cost...
 

antcollinet

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Audiophile is not a nice word in ASR for sure.
It's a little bit like how the word "patriot" is used far too much by far too many people who are not. It spoils the word for people who are, who might otherwise like to use it.
 

prerich

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I would propose a fifth category - The Music Lover. Their most important outcome is to hear the music as it was recorded and will use a combination of measurements, listening and others opinion (often in that order) to guide their journey.

The biggest challenge we face as humans interacting on a forum is the fact that we are not designed for this type of interaction. 70% to 90% of communication is non-verbal so that leaves a very wide margin for error. I do however strongly agree with the spirit of the sentiment.
However "as it was recorded" can actually vary as well. Most recording artist (some that I know personally) can give a flying flip about the mixing process and how it sounds after their takes are done. Many are looking at the road tour saying "How many times do I have to sing this song?". Engineers determine what they believe the sound should sound like and add reverb, gates, compression and other things to the original setting. We may think we're getting a "how the artist intended" (if its by Prince, MJ, or Phil Collins...you might get close), but what we truly get is what the engineer wants and what the company thinks will sell. We should realize that we're really getting the interpretation, of an interpretation, upon another interpretation....eventually we're all like Dr. Seuss' Sneetches;):)
 

JRS

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Arguably, there are only 2 types of audiophiles--rational and irrational. Both may be budget conscious, and both love sound.whether enjoying a 4TB collection of music or hearing a couple dozen tunes over and over again, there is something extremely pleasurable about the act of focused listening. I like to think I'm part of the rational bunch but I suspect my wives might not agree.
 

Spkrdctr

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Arguably, there are only 2 types of audiophiles--rational and irrational. Both may be budget conscious, and both love sound.whether enjoying a 4TB collection of music or hearing a couple dozen tunes over and over again, there is something extremely pleasurable about the act of focused listening. I like to think I'm part of the rational bunch but I suspect my wives might not agree.
The important take away from you post is "You have multiple wives"? I want to hear how I can get into that. I'm always stuck with just one. I think 3 would be about right as long as they understand they are working to support me and not the other way around. :)
 

JRS

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The important take away from you post is "You have multiple wives"? I want to hear how I can get into that. I'm always stuck with just one. I think 3 would be about right as long as they understand they are working to support me and not the other way around. :)
Need to live in Utah. Picked up an MD and PhD while I was there--in part due to the efforts of said wives. ;-D
 

steve59

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The OP that started this thread gave his qualifications as they are and then went on to share what he has experienced on this forum. I was able to relate to the subjectivist audiophile because this is where my path has landed me. Having him correctly identify me however limited was refreshing. That his op was met with so much initial rejection unfortunately says much more about the state of this forum than it does about him or the folk becoming so defensive. Tribalism at its worst, but for a marketeer such as our op all he(anyone in marketing) needs to do is read which was the wind's blowing. If the masses are currently on the side of science dragging subjectivists out of town by their heels by horses, that's what he'll market.

Anybody that's been married quickly understands trend, human nature and that everybody gets a turn at the helm, even those that just want to be left out of the box. Yep, there's a box just for those of us that refuse to be categorized I think we're called 'Rebels without a clue', but being independent we have the right to leave the name on our box blank.

In my conversations on ASR I find the objectivist's to be much more confident in their conclusions to the point that it often comes off as insecure, rude, or controlling( my interpretation, but just read the first several replies to the op). I get it. When some jacka$$ that builds a birdhouse then declares himself a master carpenter I get gruff. It took me quite awhile to realize the communication gap was why I was interpreting so much feedback as open hostility that in turn had me on my heels defending my position to folk that have already heard it all before and what am I doing in their backyard anyhow?

Is it fair to say there's the objectivist that has the degree framed on the wall and the 'objectivist' that has no more and just as often less experience as a subjectivist? lets call them 'the nominal audiophile' and because of their need to believe their system is as good as it gets, lets call it a place in time. I agree this is where me and many friends started because the crappy sounding kenwood $200 avr with .0000000000 distortion boasting 100% negative feedback had to be great so I wouldn't hate it, while the latter can ape the former, it doesn't take long to tell the difference.

Then besides ignoring brand loyalty can be so important to some folks we can ignore other brands for personal reasons, isn't science correctly termed 'the study of science'? What was absolute law for current understanding 8 years ago can be obsolete now because studying results of applied science a time ago has shown a broader picture?

I don't see how being educated in the science of sound has anything to do with being an audiophile other than incidental any more than anybody taking a step back after a hard days work to say 'good job' before rolling up and heading for home.

hopefully offended nobody and entertained somebody. Go Bears
 

Purité Audio

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The important take away from you post is "You have multiple wives"? I want to hear how I can get into that. I'm always stuck with just one. I think 3 would be about right as long as they understand they are working to support me and not the other way around. :)
I find one more than enough.
Keith
 

prerich

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The OP that started this thread gave his qualifications as they are and then went on to share what he has experienced on this forum. I was able to relate to the subjectivist audiophile because this is where my path has landed me. Having him correctly identify me however limited was refreshing. That his op was met with so much initial rejection unfortunately says much more about the state of this forum than it does about him or the folk becoming so defensive. Tribalism at its worst, but for a marketeer such as our op all he(anyone in marketing) needs to do is read which was the wind's blowing. If the masses are currently on the side of science dragging subjectivists out of town by their heels by horses, that's what he'll market.

Anybody that's been married quickly understands trend, human nature and that everybody gets a turn at the helm, even those that just want to be left out of the box. Yep, there's a box just for those of us that refuse to be categorized I think we're called 'Rebels without a clue', but being independent we have the right to leave the name on our box blank.

In my conversations on ASR I find the objectivist's to be much more confident in their conclusions to the point that it often comes off as insecure, rude, or controlling( my interpretation, but just read the first several replies to the op). I get it. When some jacka$$ that builds a birdhouse then declares himself a master carpenter I get gruff. It took me quite awhile to realize the communication gap was why I was interpreting so much feedback as open hostility that in turn had me on my heels defending my position to folk that have already heard it all before and what am I doing in their backyard anyhow?

Is it fair to say there's the objectivist that has the degree framed on the wall and the 'objectivist' that has no more and just as often less experience as a subjectivist? lets call them 'the nominal audiophile' and because of their need to believe their system is as good as it gets, lets call it a place in time. I agree this is where me and many friends started because the crappy sounding kenwood $200 avr with .0000000000 distortion boasting 100% negative feedback had to be great so I wouldn't hate it, while the latter can ape the former, it doesn't take long to tell the difference.

Then besides ignoring brand loyalty can be so important to some folks we can ignore other brands for personal reasons, isn't science correctly termed 'the study of science'? What was absolute law for current understanding 8 years ago can be obsolete now because studying results of applied science a time ago has shown a broader picture?

I don't see how being educated in the science of sound has anything to do with being an audiophile other than incidental any more than anybody taking a step back after a hard days work to say 'good job' before rolling up and heading for home.

hopefully offended nobody and entertained somebody. Go Bears
Entertained me indeed ...until the last word....Go Lions!
 

tmtomh

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That's like saying your doctor's opinion and a random stranger on the Internet giving medical advice are as valid as each other. This is definitely wrong.

Agreed. There's a large range of knowledge scenarios between logical positivism and total relativism. Or to put it more simply, as I often tell my students when I try to explain how textual interpretation can produce knowledge even though it's not a scientific endeavor, "there's more than one right answer - but there are still plenty of answers that are demonstrably wrong." :)
 
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antcollinet

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Agreed. There's a large range of knowledge scenarios between logical positivism and total relativism. Or to put it more simply, as I often tell my students when I try to explain how textual interpretation can produce knowledge even though it's not a scientific endeavor, "there's more than one right answer - but that doesn't change the facet that there are still plenty of answers that are demonstrably wrong." :)
And there are some answers that are definitely worth repeating. :p
 

ahofer

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Objectivist: measures artifacts that can’t be heard.
Subjectivist: values signals that can’t be measured.
 

fpitas

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It's a little bit like how the word "patriot" is used far too much by far too many people who are not. It spoils the word for people who are, who might otherwise like to use it.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
 

JRS

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That feedback issue is a favorite of subjectivists. But I thought the measurable consequence of slew-induced distortion was slain decades ago. Other differences are attributable to such things as raised output impedance, increased harmonic distortions and potential instability--all consequences of removing global negative feedback and none of which are a good thing objectively, but may still have captivating signatures. I think that the chasm between camps could be reduced significantly if we could agree that there are no qualities of playback that are without some objective correlate--i.e. can be measured. If we assume that there are no correlates to such properties, at the very least they should be easily identified with sufficient practice as validated. by a/b/x testing. Otherwise how would we know they even exist? Your conviction, no matter how ardent, will convince me otherwise, just as impassioned belief in God by one or many must be proof that god exists.

One interesting event in this long saga of debate was the Carver challenge which may be lost to the current generation. Interestingly, Bob Carver ended up producing amplifiers with sonic signatures even though they were objectively worse. Sadly, more recent products are absolute dreck as a review here revealed.
 

Spkrdctr

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One interesting event in this long saga of debate was the Carver challenge which may be lost to the current generation. Interestingly, Bob Carver ended up producing amplifiers with sonic signatures even though they were objectively worse. Sadly, more recent products are absolute dreck as a review here revealed.
The Carver challenge was very interesting for its time. Those were the good old days where you told subjectivists that there mom was a wench. Then the real arguments started. All ending with no subjectivists ever taking a blind test again. They know better as their jobs depend on not doing one.
 
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