A new Kef speaker? The Kef LS Luxe

[Miguelón]

Of course PEQ requires some knowledge, but again, it doesn't need to be in your face when you open the app, they can hide it in advanced settings or something. It is really a rubbish excuse for not to have it IMO.

Just think about this, who is their target audience with those speakers? B&O user ? Well B&O has room correction. Buchardt type of audiophile? well those folks have PEQ and room correction too.

We’re saying the same thing, but I’m reasoning about the point of view of KEF.

I was nor arguing against your arguments, only re-arranging in a more positive terms.

 

[SigbergAudio]

I say this as someone who owns nothing but EVs: I HATE this type of performative "green" nonsense. It's more annoying than paper straws and cars that stop themselves. I was in Bologna a few weeks back and nearly died when my rental decided to kill the engine as I entered a traffic circle, apparently taking my foot off the gas for ten seconds to wait for a truck to pass was killing the planet, so my rental tried to kill me.

But it sounds like the problem isn't really that they turn off, but that they won't turn back on? So in theory we could save the planet and still have a system working as it should?

EDIT: Based on the manual it also looks like the auto-off can be adjusted up to 60 minutes, and also disabled entirely?

EDIT2: And it has auto-on (screenshot below), but perhaps not working properly?

 

[SigbergAudio]

If you Google it, you'll see a wall of results, all saying the same thing: Kefs won't stay powered on.

I checked for posts from the last few months, and still the issue exists: https://www.facebook.com/groups/LS50USERS/posts/26268746369487907/

I've tried connecting them to different device, same problem.

I bought a 2nd remote, the remote didn't work, so that was a waste. (Not Kef's fault, but still frustrating.)

It feels like devolution; I have a Yamaha soundbar I bought at a yard sale from the NINETIES and it worked out of the box, the interface was intuitive, and it just works. Yamaha figured it out nearly three decades ago, and Kef probably sells more active speakers than any hifi brand in the USA, and they can't or won't fix the most basic problem imaginable.

I explicitly bought the KEFs because I wanted to run the speakers with WiFi, not BT, because it's uncompressed. That was one of the main features for me. I gave up on WiFi on these things a while ago.

In Kef's defense, Bluetooth WILL keep the speaker powered up! So at least I know that ONE of the options will keep the speaker on. Unfortunately, keeping with the theme of "terrible software," the lag on the BT is mind numbingly long. I carefully adjusted the delay one time, and naturally, the speaker discarded my careful setup ten minutes later when it (you guessed it) turned itself off.

If I wasn't so cheap, I would throw the speakers away.

To me, it's downright bizarre that Kef would invest SO MUCH EFFORT in the engineering of their speakers, then treat the interface like an afterthought.

So it's wake-up via wifi (like spotify connect etc?) that's not supported and/or not working?

 

[Patrick Bateman]

So it's wake-up via wifi (like spotify connect etc?) that's not supported and/or not working?

It's all good, I was just ranting. I cleaned it up.

KEF reached out to me in person, minutes after I made my post.

That has to be the wildest customer experience I've ever had!

 

[Alexei]

In case this hasn’t been already posted, and anyone wants a listen.
Not very scientific, but….
Scroll fwd to just before 1/2 way through clip for sound samples.

 

[Flaesh]

I was just ranting. I cleaned it up.

I just started reading this!))

 

[Goldhamster916]

So uhh. Wen klippel.
And what’s the place of manufacture? And I’d like to state that this question is pure curiosity. I own $5k speakers manufactured in china…

So far only the reference and blade series is build in the UK, I doubt they have broke with that tradition for the Luxe.

 

[mhardy6647]

Fwiw, I must say that the price seems utterly reasonable from my perspective. Lots of design and engineering packed onto these little boxes... umm, enclosures!

 

[OllieMarshall]

"a custom blend of glass fibre-reinforced BMC (BulkMoulded Compound) was developed. This is the samematerial used for the front baffle of the LS50 Meta andWireless II loudspeakers." From the white paper: https://images.salsify.com/image/upload/s--3dv0Hd7p--/myoxbujcbvrsfpjkmrph.pdf

Knocking on it will probably give many audiophiles a feeling of satisfaction.

Probably glass filled ABS

 

[Gwen 22]

Probably glass filled ABS

That's probably about right, but the important thing is that the glass fibers are arranged randomly to limit the propagation of sounds waves.

 

[Gwen 22]

Nulls cannot be addressed this way.
IIR EQ works only in well damped room, or with different type of loudspeaker than is vented 2-ways.

What you're saying is absolutely correct, but I don't understand what you're getting at. Are you implying that, despite feedback and measurements showing the opposite, automatic calibration systems like Dirac don't offer any benefits for an active speaker in a living room?
If that's not the case, then we agree that it's a glaring omission in a speaker like the LS Luxe, given its price point.

 

[Miguelón]

In case this hasn’t been already posted, and anyone wants a listen.
Not very scientific, but….
Scroll fwd to just before 1/2 way through clip for sound samples.

I never trust this kind of sound tests but... oh god, sounds amazing.

 

[EXIF68]

In case this hasn’t been already posted, and anyone wants a listen.
Not very scientific, but….
Scroll fwd to just before 1/2 way through clip for sound samples.

In this test also Lady Gaga sounds amazing and that is not very often the case.

 

[Redogfizbal]

At first I was on Kefs side as far as implementing room correction, however; after reading the entire thread I feel it is a fail on Kefs part to not
include it. Even a basic version that just corrects 500hz and below would be enough. My pair is showing up this Thursday, hopefully there is no bad room modes in my master bedroom. They will be getting returned if there is. I refuse to add third party hardware. It would completely defeat the whole purpose of this system.

sorry if my grammer is bad, chemo for the last 3 years makes me not care enough to correct it.

 

[Pearljam5000]

They should make an 8 inch version

 

[staticV3]

At first I was on Kefs side as far as implementing room correction, however; after reading the entire thread I feel it is a fail on Kefs part to not
include it. Even a basic version that just corrects 500hz and below would be enough. My pair is showing up this Thursday, hopefully there is no bad room modes in my master bedroom. They will be getting returned if there is. I refuse to add third party hardware. It would completely defeat the whole purpose of this system.

sorry if my grammer is bad, chemo for the last 3 years makes me not care enough to correct it.

You could stick a WiiM Mini onto the back, powered by the USB-C jack on the rear of the speaker. That way, no additional hardware or wires would be visible.

I get it though.
Just knowing it is there, and the time spent jumping through those hoops spoil the experience.

 

[Gwen 22]

They should make an 8 inch version

First, let's make sure there is no negative interaction at high volumes between the 16.5 cm woofer and the tweeter. Let's not forget that having concentric drivers imposes certain technical constraints.
That said, I'm personally not a fan of 8" woofers in 2-way bookshelf speakers because they're often bulky and the tweeter/woofer integration isn't as good as with a 6.5", which seems to me to be the sweet spot.

 

[kemmler3D]

it is a fail on Kefs part to not
include it.

I think questions on the product side might be:

1. If we include room correction, do we have to ship a mic with the speaker? If so, what kind of mic? How does it communicate with the speaker? Etc.
2. If we don't ship a mic, is a smartphone mic good enough for a $4000 product? (WiiM makes do with smartphone mics or built-in mics, but those are closer to $100)
3. If we use a smartphone mic, which models can we support?
4. Do we need to test those models ourselves?
5. etc.

A mode with no measurement support where you just plug in EQ values or import a .txt might be OK for us power-users who bought our UMIK-1s years ago.

But shipping this feature to the general public may demand a more careful approach.

They're looking at it (probably) through the lens of: Value of feature = Increased sales - Increase in returns.

If 1% of people know how to use PEQ correctly and a different 1% tries it and screws up their sound and returns the product, it's a loser and the 1% of PEQ-enjoyers does not justify the investment. KEF needs to believe that they are losing sales from not having PEQ materially more often than they would get returns from wrong settings in PEQ.

The other point of view (from the marketing side) is that PEQ is becoming a "table-stakes" feature and not having it will tend to start generating "cons" or negative comments in reviews. This will tend to hurt sales in a very un-quantifiable way. But when (say) SVS are putting PEQ in their app, you can't really say it's a niche, unheard-of feature. And SVS hasn't deleted that feature from their app due to overwhelming user problems.

Does the average person know what a phase knob does on the back of a sub? Not really. Do KEF put them on the backs of their subs? Yep. Can the wrong settings wreck your sound? Also yep.

I think the support / return risk is probably overestimated, the marketing risk is increasing, and KEF just needs to add it and ask their UI designer to not make it look too appealing to the novices.

 

[Grimoire]

I think questions on the product side might be:

1. If we include room correction, do we have to ship a mic with the speaker? If so, what kind of mic? How does it communicate with the speaker? Etc.
2. If we don't ship a mic, is a smartphone mic good enough for a $4000 product? (WiiM makes do with smartphone mics or built-in mics, but those are closer to $100)
3. If we use a smartphone mic, which models can we support?
4. Do we need to test those models ourselves?
5. etc.

A mode with no measurement support where you just plug in EQ values or import a .txt might be OK for us power-users who bought our UMIK-1s years ago.

But shipping this feature to the general public may demand a more careful approach.

They're looking at it (probably) through the lens of: Value of feature = Increased sales - Increase in returns.

If 1% of people know how to use PEQ correctly and a different 1% tries it and screws up their sound and returns the product, it's a loser and the 1% of PEQ-enjoyers does not justify the investment. KEF needs to believe that they are losing sales from not having PEQ materially more often than they would get returns from wrong settings in PEQ.

The other point of view (from the marketing side) is that PEQ is becoming a "table-stakes" feature and not having it will tend to start generating "cons" or negative comments in reviews. This will tend to hurt sales in a very un-quantifiable way. But when (say) SVS are putting PEQ in their app, you can't really say it's a niche, unheard-of feature. And SVS hasn't deleted that feature from their app due to overwhelming user problems.

Does the average person know what a phase knob does on the back of a sub? Not really. Do KEF put them on the backs of their subs? Yep. Can the wrong settings wreck your sound? Also yep.

I think the support / return risk is probably overestimated, the marketing risk is increasing, and KEF just needs to add it and ask their UI designer to not make it look too appealing to the novices.

Just automate it, as WiiM and others have done.

 

[kemmler3D]

Just automate it, as WiiM and others have done.

Sure, "just automate it" but with what microphones, etc? Correcting modes from where the speaker sits doesn't necessarily help the MLP, etc. My point is that it's not a very complex feature compared to firing up REW and stuff, but getting it working right from a layperson's point of view is not as simple as flipping a switch for KEF.