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A new Dac to improve sound quality from Khadas Tone Board 1

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HappyMax

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@solderdude Sorry I don't want to sound stubborn and I don't have your technical skills, but I'm sure the sound the Loxje produces is fuller, more pleasant, less tiring and more detailed than the Khadas. Can't it depend on the two different chips used (ES9038Q2M vs AK4493 ) ?
 

Veri

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I use moOde audio player and I get the same feeling when a new version is released with an improvement in audio quality.
Of course you get the "feeling". But then you check the changelog and nothing substantial changed, only some minor bug fixes.

So how do you explain that? Could it be that your tests are run too much on "feeling" ...
 

solderdude

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@solderdude Sorry I don't want to sound stubborn and I don't have your technical skills, but I'm sure the sound the Loxje produces is fuller, more pleasant, less tiring and more detailed than the Khadas. Can't it depend on the two different chips used (ES9038Q2M vs AK4493 ) ?

It's the level difference... or a substantially different filter.
The improvements you describe you can also hear when you set the volume down -1 dB and then increase 1dB again.
It is an age old trick I also used when selling hifi gear (long ago in the age of CDP).
Not dissimilar to increasing the contrast on a TV you get a higher margin on. That' s also a trick everyone falls for.

When you really want to know there are ways to test... they differ from your current method.
 
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HappyMax

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Of course you get the "feeling". But then you check the changelog and nothing substantial changed, only some minor bug fixes.

So how do you explain that? Could it be that your tests are run too much on "feeling" ...

I use MoOde Player from november 2019 v. 6.3.
In each upgrade I clearly noticed sonic details not present with previous versions, more defined voices, instruments that emerge even in not recently remastered recordings; I can't understand how the MoOde developers manage to make so many improvements; for me it is incredible how sound quality !!!!
In particular, the version 7 (7.3 is id been released today) has made great improvements in sound quality: the sound is full-bodied, round and much more detailed than previous versions.
I think (this is only my absolutely subjective opinion ) that to have the same quality of MoOde you would have to buy a cd player for 1000 euros at least.
I recommend all audiophiles to use this player.
 

threni

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I use MoOde Player from november 2019 v. 6.3.
In each upgrade I clearly noticed sonic details not present with previous versions, more defined voices, instruments that emerge even in not recently remastered recordings; I can't understand how the MoOde developers manage to make so many improvements; for me it is incredible how sound quality !!!!
In particular, the version 7 (7.3 is id been released today) has made great improvements in sound quality: the sound is full-bodied, round and much more detailed than previous versions.
I think (this is only my absolutely subjective opinion ) that to have the same quality of MoOde you would have to buy a cd player for 1000 euros at least.
I recommend all audiophiles to use this player.

You're beginning to sound like a troll now ("round" sound?), as you've constantly ignored people telling you 1) your way of comparing hardware and software is flawed, and 2) there IS no difference in sound quality between different versions of the software you're using to control mpd.

In case you're not trolling, then trust me - you don't have to tell us this is your absolutely subjective opinion! Please follow my previous advice and read up on blind tests.
 

fieldcar

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If the apple usb-c dongle dac had more voltage output, I'd have skipped buying the topping D50S to feed my THX 789. If you're happy with an upgrade, great, but the difference is probably just voltage as everyone has pointed out.

Don't believe anything we're all saying? Well, benchmark your ears to find out how sensitive you are to THD. I'm good for about -36dB THD on a good day using my etymotics(ER4XR) with my D50S+THX789 stack, but I got -30dB today using my computer speakers(Razer nomo with build in DAC). You'll find that the -109dB THD of the Khadas tone board to be FAR above what you can discern. Now, there is a possibility that you have a playback/driver issue, or a filter issue, or a samplerate conversion issue, but you'd likely be repeating the same mistake with the new DAC.

I hope you find some value in this.

Take the klippel test!
https://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/

1624900111456.png
 

DSJR

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The OP will hate me for saying this, but I believe the Naim amp will stamp its band limited distortion all over any possible (and impossible) subjective differences in any dacs played through it (distortion of modern Naims seems rather lower than in the 80's but it's still rather higher than most cheaper good dacs these days). I also seem to recall the XS in original form had a dac built in and was cheaper too...

Me? I'd flog the Naim and consider a Hegel 120 at least, with built in dac and forget all about 'HiFi' from now on as it's a hiding to nothing - but what do I know - I mean, I like Quad Artera amps too :D
 
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HappyMax

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You're beginning to sound like a troll now ("round" sound?), as you've constantly ignored people telling you 1) your way of comparing hardware and software is flawed, and 2) there IS no difference in sound quality between different versions of the software you're using to control mpd.

In case you're not trolling, then trust me - you don't have to tell us this is your absolutely subjective opinion! Please follow my previous advice and read up on blind tests.

Sorry but how do you evaluate a software like moOde if not with your opinion ?

In addition, there are elements that are impossible to reproduce such as my room and my system that are a weight in the evaluation.

I have no other tools than my ears and I repeat for me MoOde is an absolutely level player that I recommend everyone to test.

The word "round sound" refers to my experience with installing various versions of MoOde; in other words it simply indicates better than the previous version; it can be generic but being just an audiophile I don't know what other word to use.
 

threni

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Sorry but how do you evaluate a software like moOde if not with your opinion ?

In addition, there are elements that are impossible to reproduce such as my room and my system that are a weight in the evaluation.

I have no other tools than my ears and I repeat for me MoOde is an absolutely level player that I recommend everyone to test.

The word "round sound" refers to my experience with installing various versions of MoOde; in other words it simply indicates better than the previous version; it can be generic but being just an audiophile I don't know what other word to use.

What part of "MoOde is a front end for mpd" and "check the changelog" and "study blind tests" do you not understand?
 
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HappyMax

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@fieldcar car Thank you very much for your post.

@DSJR The XS2 don't have a dac; anyway, I prefer to keep the separate components that allow you to upgrade each element at any time.
 
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HappyMax

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What part of "MoOde is a front end for mpd" and "check the changelog" and "study blind tests" do you not understand?

I don't understand. Please detail you request.
Maybe I understand your request. If you want to know how many and what changes have been made to the moOde to player (to have objective info) you can check the application's source repository and the release notes.
https://github.com/moode-player
https://github.com/moode-player/moode/releases
I can't remember all the changes in detail but they have been very consistent since version 6.3.
I hope I have answered your question.
 
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Veri

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I don't understand. Please detail you request.
Maybe I understand your request. If you want to know how many and what changes have been made to the moOde to player (to have objective info) you can check the application's source repository and the release notes.
https://github.com/moode-player
https://github.com/moode-player/moode/releases
I can't remember all the changes in detail but they have been very consistent since version 6.3.
I hope I have answered your question.
Man... have YOU checked what changed after 6.3 to 7? No it's apparently far easier to "trust your ears" and not question anything about the how or why, or even the "if" it's there in the first place. This forum is science first, I fear you'll have a hard time here just writing whatever comes to mind doing your (not very professional) comparisons.

You're gonna get the same type of responses every time..
 

raistlin65

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@solderdude Sorry I don't want to sound stubborn and I don't have your technical skills, but I'm sure the sound the Loxje produces is fuller, more pleasant, less tiring and more detailed than the Khadas. Can't it depend on the two different chips used (ES9038Q2M vs AK4493 ) ?

Listen to what @solderdude is telling you. 1.2db increase in input from the Loxje may not be enough to sound louder to you. You may feel like the Khadas and the Loxje are the same volume. But that small decibel volume increase will result in the audio sounding better because it is slightly louder.

That being said, if you want to ignore the role that slight differences in volume can make in perceived audio quality, then all you need is an accurate DAC with higher output like the Loxje. Then your tests will make it sound better compared to the Khadas. Not sure which one does that, but someone else can probably tell you.
 

Koeitje

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That DAC was a waste of money, should have just bought better speakers. Basically always the answer to improving sound quality. But I guess the placebo worked in this case.
 

SIY

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Sorry for accurate I mean that my ears and my wife's actually perceived an improvement in audio quality in a noise-free environment by hearing the audio sitting in the same spot.

Obviously it is a test that does not use amirm 's measuring instruments but only four ears.

I use moOde audio player and I get the same feeling when a new version is released with an improvement in audio quality.
Four ears, but also four eyes and a pile of priming. Try it level matched and no peeking.
 

dfuller

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It's almost never the DAC that will yield improvements. Rarely it's the amp. Vast majority of the time it's speakers. Speakers are where the "rubber meets the road" so to speak, and good speakers will always yield leaps and bounds more improvement than any sort of electronics.
 

DSJR

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@fieldcar car Thank you very much for your post.

@DSJR The XS2 don't have a dac; anyway, I prefer to keep the separate components that allow you to upgrade each element at any time.

From memory, Naim ditched the dac and put the price up for the XS2. I think I can say dacs were a done thing pushing thirty years ago to be honest. Costs have come right down now and most tech improvements these days are not audible I reckon although really good to see, but once you've chosen a dac for cosmetics and facilities, I reckon you could forget all about them after that. Amps? I think they're a done deal as well, but some enthusiast brands try to keep some mystique going and charge accordingly. There are some seriously good amps around these days for not much money and away from tribal dealers and with some more study here, I hope you'll look to investigating some in the future. Here endeth the lecture with respect and apologies for getting on my soap box.
 

Sombreuil

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I'm new to the audio world and already tired of reading people trying to justify their "warm sounding" DACs :rolleyes:.
Was it already the case before Youtube became one of the main sources of information?
 
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