a moving-coil cartridge is an absolute minimum requirement: even the best moving magnet will not be capable of the measuring the extra information in

[Multicore]

I was reading an article on The Quietus about a reissue of Dark Magus and trying to skip over the audiophile and definitive vinyl stuff when I got to this and nearly gave up.

Dark Magus is a demanding starting point in what could (should?) end up being a string of potentially revelatory re-releases – and, as befits a release presumably intended to put down a marker, the results are certainly impressive: though to what degree will depend on the quality of the system being used to play the record. Personal experience suggests a moving-coil cartridge is an absolute minimum requirement: even the best moving magnet will not be capable of the measuring the extra information in the groove with sufficient accuracy to reveal the additional detail and nuance. But if your system has sufficient capability, the rewards can be rich indeed.​

If a moving-coil cartridge is an absolute minimum requirement, what would exceed the requirement? Rhetorical question. I don't care. You can read the rest of it here

Reissue of the Week: Dark Magus by Miles Davis | The Quietus

Angus Batey drops the needle on yet another (expensive) Miles Davis reissue but still finds there are new sounds and ideas to be had

thequietus.com

I have enjoyed reading in The Quietus in the past. For example this was good.

 

[Robin L]

I was reading an article on The Quietus about a reissue of Dark Magus and trying to skip over the audiophile and definitive vinyl stuff when I got to this and nearly gave up.

Dark Magus is a demanding starting point in what could (should?) end up being a string of potentially revelatory re-releases – and, as befits a release presumably intended to put down a marker, the results are certainly impressive: though to what degree will depend on the quality of the system being used to play the record. Personal experience suggests a moving-coil cartridge is an absolute minimum requirement: even the best moving magnet will not be capable of the measuring the extra information in the groove with sufficient accuracy to reveal the additional detail and nuance. But if your system has sufficient capability, the rewards can be rich indeed.​

If a moving-coil cartridge is an absolute minimum requirement, what would exceed the requirement? Rhetorical question. I don't care. You can read the rest of it here

Reissue of the Week: Dark Magus by Miles Davis | The Quietus

Angus Batey drops the needle on yet another (expensive) Miles Davis reissue but still finds there are new sounds and ideas to be had

thequietus.com

I have enjoyed reading in The Quietus in the past. For example this was good.

My guess is that a good transfer to a digital format would exceed anything any LP could do. As regards moving magnet vs moving coil, the distance of LP replay VS. digital replay exceeds innate differences between the phono cartridge designs as regards sound. A rock dragged through an easily damaged plastic groove is still a rock through a groove. There might be an early CD transfer that's subpar, though I only see one listed, from 1997. I'm surprised I haven't heard this one yet, being I'm a fan of electric Miles. I've heard enough to know that they are not what I'd call "subtle" in terms of potential sound quality. A lot of the sound in these loud, long jams is being produced by less than pristine guitar amps and other noise making devices.

 

[SIY]

Personal experience suggests a moving-coil cartridge is an absolute minimum requirement: even the best moving magnet will not be capable of the measuring the extra information in the groove with sufficient accuracy to reveal the additional detail and nuance.

This, of course, is utter crap.

 

[Multicore]

I'm surprised I haven't heard this one yet,

me2

being I'm a fan of electric Miles.

me3!

I've heard enough to know that they are not what I'd call "subtle" in terms of potential sound quality. A lot of the sound in these loud, long jams is being produced by less than pristine guitar amps and other noise making devices.

Dark Magus rocks. Pete Cosey and Reggie Lucas on guitars - oh yeah. There's a couple of great videos on YouTube of mostly the same band. I love watching. What performance you like best? Well, I guess we best organize a listening party to figure that out.

and

 

[Robin L]

 

[Ruhled]

What extra information do they think is even there? It's a 70's soundboard recording of what is essentially a rock band. Love the album but that article is just silly. Next they are going to expound on the virtues of carbon film resistors over metal film in the phono stage?

 

[mhardy6647]

Plenty of very, very good "magnetic" cartridges. The best of them seem to be of the moving iron ("variable reluctance") type, though.
The (stereo) moving coil cartridge was invented and patented by the (EDIT: part-time!) opera singer and watch maker Joe Grado, but he rather quickly moved on to MI cartridges. Grado (now run by Joe's nephew) is still making very fine MI cartridges.

Grado Labs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Multicore]

So sweet.

I cannot overstate how important this is to me as validation of a general approach to music making.

I'm on the record stating that Jack Johnson is John McLaughlin's best record.

 

[Multicore]

Plenty of very, very good "magnetic" cartridges. The best of them seem to be of the moving iron ("variable reluctance") type, though.
The (stereo) moving coil cartridge was invented and patented by the (EDIT: part-time!) opera singer and watch maker Joe Grado, but he rather quickly moved on to MI cartridges. Grado (now run by Joe's nephew) is still making very fine MI cartridges.

I was a teenager when I got my first Grado, several centuries ago. Played lots of electric Miles on it.

 

[SIY]

I'm on the record stating that Jack Johnson is John McLaughlin's best record.

You're a monster.

Extrapolation FTW.

 

[Multicore]

You're a monster.

Roawr.

Extrapolation FTW.

60s Brit-jazz. It's so weird. 60s Brit-improv was cool, including Oxley ofc. But anything that smacks of 60s Brits trying to be American or, you know, the other thing, Rendell/Carr and all that.

 

[Keith_W]

This, of course, is utter crap.

I know very little about the science of vinyl. Can you explain why MM's are not inferior to MC's when it comes to tracking accuracy? Most people who are into vinyl think that the lower mass of MC improves tracking because there is less inertia. Is this untrue?

 

[gene_stl]

I don't think there have been very many truly scientific inquiries into the "science" of vinyl. Everything was commercial products and the engineering that led to them. Lots and lots of trade secrets and methods. Unfortunately the vinyl "renaissance" is even more rife with this kind of bool sheet than it was the first time around.

 

[mhardy6647]

Last I knew: (typically) there's more moving mass in an MC cartridge - to wit, the coils. Moving coil cartridges are more or less low compliance devices as a result.
The MI design can offer the lowest mass at the transducer -- consider, e.g., the "Micro Moving Cross" of b&o. Such cartridges are still made by Soundsmith. It is possible, of course, light but strong magnets using materials such as neodymium.

source: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=118456&start=12


Claims for all three of the above having the lowest moving mass can be found on the internet -- so there's that.

Stylus profile, alignment, and compliance are all more or less important to tracking ability. The more esoteric/asymmetric stylus geometries are way pickier about alignment. The redoubtable and venerable Denon DL-103 LOMC is very low compliance but with a relatively small conical diamond stylus, tracks quite reliably and performs quite robustly. That may be why it's been in production since 1961.

 

[SIY]

I know very little about the science of vinyl. Can you explain why MM's are not inferior to MC's when it comes to tracking accuracy? Most people who are into vinyl think that the lower mass of MC improves tracking because there is less inertia. Is this untrue?

The lowest moving mass cartridge ever made commercially was... a moving magnet. So the premise of "lower mass" is not accurate.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Laser light has less mass than any moving coil or moving magnet cartridge. Apologies for the pedantry.

 

[Chrispy]

So much nonsense. WTF is "The Quietus"? Sounds fucking ridiculous without looking.....

 

[SNHK]

Moving coil often reaches much higher price points in the "high end audio" world so this means it must be better? Just a guess.
Moving magnet carts like the AT-VM95ML are quite well liked... I believe Stereophile even has the VM95 series in one of their recommended components lists! But yeah all moving magnet owners have actually not been hearing music this whole time.

 

[Robin L]

So much nonsense. WTF is "The Quietus"? Sounds fucking ridiculous without looking.....

The two articles posted are musically adventurous. The discussion of the sonic properties of "Dark Magus" isn't all that useful, but the writing about the music is quite good. The other article is about The Master Musicians Of Joujouka, and is very interesting

 

[BeeKay]

Plenty of very, very good "magnetic" cartridges. The best of them seem to be of the moving iron ("variable reluctance") type, though.
The (stereo) moving coil cartridge was invented and patented by the (EDIT: part-time!) opera singer and watch maker Joe Grado, but he rather quickly moved on to MI cartridges. Grado (now run by Joe's nephew) is still making very fine MI cartridges.

Grado Labs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I still have a Goldring 2500 (moving iron) cartridge on my TT. Enjoy it and don't get the upgrade itch. Unfortunately, replacement styli have become a rare commodity and have gone up in price. So, should I need one, moving away from this discontinued model makes much more sense.