A millennial's rant on classical music

[MRC01]

Personally, I think that a lot of Western art music is boring beyond comprehension. Throughout different periods and styles, there are just a few standout composers, with the rest producing music that's repetitive and uninspired. While I can stomach some Mahler, Bach, Chopin, Shostakovich, or Lutoslawski, a big chunk of - say - 20th-century music is just noise. ...

I used to think that of some kinds of music, before I understood it. Studying the scores, and in some cases learning to play it, opened new insight and appreciation. That said, music is both universal and personal. If it ain't for you, then it ain't for you. That's not a judgement.

The majority of human efforts are "repetitive and uninspired." It is the few standouts that endure and provide enjoyment.

True. The well known baroque and classical composers are not gods to be worshipped, but we shouldn't dismiss them either. When people are still enjoying music (whether listening or playing) hundreds of years after it was first created, there are usually good reasons. Same with other arts and literature, of course.

 

[Liya]

I'm just a simpleton and enjoy dozens of obscure 19th and 20th Century composers.

 

[pderousse]

If you don’t like Classical music, I guess all that can be said is that Classical music doesn’t like you.

 

[Robin L]

Personally, I think that a lot of Western art music is boring beyond comprehension. Throughout different periods and styles, there are just a few standout composers, with the rest producing music that's repetitive and uninspired. While I can stomach some Mahler, Bach, Chopin, Shostakovich, or Lutoslawski, a big chunk of - say - 20th-century music is just noise. Recently, there's been a shift towards some sort of new age styled compositions, which I find even worse than the noise of the 20th century. The Hyperion gets credit for trying to record less popular stuff, but it ends up highlighting how mediocre a lot of non-mainstream music really is. And then there's this endless stream of 'me too' soloists, ensembles and orchestras playing the same old compositions over and over again. It's a dead end.

Personally, I think most popular western music is boring beyond comprehension. There is too much outright copying, so little genuine originality. There's been an endless stream of "me too" rockers, playing the same old riffs over and over again ever since the volume at concerts got loud enough to guarantee hearing damage unless one was wearing some sort of sonic protection. Pop music has been at a dead end for a long time running. I first started noting how cheesy pop was getting around 1970, so I started listening to much more "Classical" music.

 

[Liya]

Personally, I think most popular western music is boring beyond comprehension. There is too much outright copying, so little genuine originality. There's been an endless stream of "me too" rockers, playing the same old riffs over and over again ever since the volume at concerts got loud enough to guarantee hearing damage unless one was wearing some sort of sonic protection. Pop music has been at a dead end for a long time running. I first started noting how cheesy pop was getting around 1970, so I started listening to much more "Classical" music.

Haha, I like it.
It's not that I haven't listened to classical. I have been listening classical for the past 30 years. I have over 2000 albums sitting at the attic and ripped on my hard drive. I go weekly thru classical new releases. But the vast majority of classical makes me feel depressed and puts me in a gloomy mood. No other genre has such an impact on me, or is so troublesome. To put things into perspective I don't listen to pop, coutry, rap, metal, or disco, but with these I just don't listen and it doesn't bother me that I don't. But I keep coming back to classical and whenever I do, I end up feeling down and gloomy.

 

[Liya]

I used to think that of some kinds of music, before I understood it. Studying the scores, and in some cases learning to play it, opened new insight and appreciation.

I agree and think that studying anything can be very engaging and rewarding. I know this from my own experience.

 

[olieb]

But the vast majority of classical music makes me feel depressed and puts me in a gloomy mood.

There certainly is a strong melancholic aspect in a lot of classical music, but I would not say it is the "vast majority". But maybe you mean something very different with "feel depressed" and "gloomy mood".
In any case this is not at all what "boring" means in my book. That would be my feeling if I would be presented with something superficial and thoroughly empty. And yes, that can be a depressing experience.
What kind of music does not have this effect on you [we know this already for some Mahler, Bach, Chopin..]?

 

[Seta Seta Pop]

I don't like either cheese or offal. And it's ok. Relax.

 

[Keith_W]

Haha, I like it.
It's not that I haven't listened to classical. I have been listening classical for the past 30 years. I have over 2000 albums sitting at the attic and ripped on my hard drive. I go weekly thru classical new releases. But the vast majority of classical makes me feel depressed and puts me in a gloomy mood. No other genre has such an impact on me, or is so troublesome. To put things into perspective I don't listen to pop, coutry, rap, metal, or disco, but with these I just don't listen and it doesn't bother me that I don't. But I keep coming back to classical and whenever I do, I end up feeling down and gloomy.

I know what you mean about music putting you in a certain mood. I guess the solution is to mix it up. When I am in a bad mood, Bach is always great. Beethoven is sometimes a good antidote to depression. When I am in a good mood, I can stomach Wagner, Shostakovich, Mahler, Schubert, and others.

 

[Liya]

There certainly is a strong melancholic aspect in a lot of classical music, but I would not say it is the "vast majority". But maybe you mean something very different with "feel depressed" and "gloomy mood".
In any case this is not at all what "boring" means in my book. That would be my feeling if I would be presented with something superficial and thoroughly empty. And yes, that can be a depressing experience.
What kind of music does not have this effect on you [we know this already for some Mahler, Bach, Chopin..]?

I tend to lean towards more melancholic and sombre pieces rather than the lighter, more upbeat works from the baroque or Mozart era. However, I do appreciate what Théotime Langlois de Swarte brings to the baroque. His performances are elegant and melancholic yet still fresh and expressive.
I'm not a fan of opera or the works of Vaughan Williams, Debussy, Wagner, Sibelius, Walton, Berlioz, or especially Bruckner.
Right now, I'm listening to a recording of Bach's early cantatas and loving it, but Bach holds a special place in my musical heart.
Piano, I admire Horowitz, Pollini, and Argerich. But a friend introduced me to Cortot, Leschetizky, and Rachmaninoff (as a pianist), and I've come to appreciate their interpretations too.
I have enough of Beethoven’s symphonies; I know them inside out. And while I've tried his quartets, they're not really my thing, but I do like some of his early piano sonatas. Mozart's symphonies tend to blend together for me.
I'm a big fan of Rostropovich and have enjoyed exploring his recordings, which led me to discover Dutilleux's "Tout un monde lointain," a piece I consider a masterpiece.
I generally like cello concertos, from Haydn to Dutilleux.
20th century. I appreciate Prokofiev's concertos and sonatas, but not so much his symphonies. I also enjoy Gubaidulina's "Concerto for Viola and Orchestra" and - on the same album - Kancheli's "Styx" featuring Yuri Bashmet. Shostakovich's quartets, and concertos, especially by Rostropovich, Ibragimova and Argerich (Piano Concerto No. 1 in C minor for piano, trumpet & strings, Op. 35, another masterpiece). Penderecki’s Seven Gates of Jerusalem. Most of Lutoslawski’s work. Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du temps, the one with Janine Jansen on violin.

That's pretty much where I'm at in my classical music journey.

 

[Robin L]

I tend to lean towards more melancholic and sombre pieces rather than the lighter, more upbeat works from the baroque or Mozart era. However, I do appreciate what Théotime Langlois de Swarte brings to the baroque. His performances are elegant and melancholic yet still fresh and expressive.
I'm not a fan of opera or the works of Vaughan Williams, Debussy, Wagner, Sibelius, Walton, Berlioz, or especially Bruckner.
Right now, I'm listening to a recording of Bach's early cantatas and loving it, but Bach holds a special place in my musical heart.
Piano, I admire Horowitz, Pollini, and Argerich. But a friend introduced me to Cortot, Leschetizky, and Rachmaninoff (as a pianist), and I've come to appreciate their interpretations too.
I have enough of Beethoven’s symphonies; I know them inside out. And while I've tried his quartets, they're not really my thing, but I do like some of his early piano sonatas. Mozart's symphonies tend to blend together for me.
I'm a big fan of Rostropovich and have enjoyed exploring his recordings, which led me to discover Dutilleux's "Tout un monde lointain," a piece I consider a masterpiece.
I generally like cello concertos, from Haydn to Dutilleux.
20th century. I appreciate Prokofiev's concertos and sonatas, but not so much his symphonies. I also enjoy Gubaidulina's "Concerto for Viola and Orchestra" and - on the same album - Kancheli's "Styx" featuring Yuri Bashmet. Shostakovich's quartets, and concertos, especially by Rostropovich, Ibragimova and Argerich (Piano Concerto No. 1 in C minor for piano, trumpet & strings, Op. 35, another masterpiece). Penderecki’s Seven Gates of Jerusalem. Most of Lutoslawski’s work. Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du temps, the one with Janine Jansen on violin.

That's pretty much where I'm at in my classical music journey.

I was recording engineer for the San Francisco Early Music Society for the better part of a decade in the 1990s. So I've had a lot of exposure to Baroque and pre-Baroque music. A lot of quirky invention in some of the later Baroque music, like Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber, and a lot of deep melancholy in early Baroque, like Saint Colombe. The first work of "Classical" music that snagged me was Berlioz "Symphonie Fantastique". Classical is in quotes as the work is clearly the first great piece of "Romantic" music. But Beethoven's bicentennial soon followed after that, and I continue to listen to his music quite regularly. Recently got two complete cycles of the piano sonatas via Ebay, the 1930s Artur Schnabel set and Fredrich Gulda's 1960s set for Amadeo. Gulda really tears up the early piano sonatas, worth looking into.

I probably have listened to the symphonies enough, but still find a lot of musical value in the piano sonatas and chamber works. The string quartets are really "my thing".

I've become a fan of Bruckner's symphonies, the Sixth becoming a particular favorite. I've developed an aversion to Wagner, but Vaughan Williams' Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis will always have a place in my heart. I listen to Sibelius symphonies frequently and have listened to Debussy often. I think Rachmaninoff tends to be underestimated as a composer. I have heard a fair amount of 20th century music, not all of it "sticks". One could say my taste in music is more backwards looking. If it's melancholia you're looking for, try John Dowland.

 

[Liya]

I decided to explore various threads here on ASR to see what classical music people enjoy. So far, one recommendation that stood out for me was John Dowland's "Lachrimae". After looking at what's available on streaming services, it seems like the recording by Phantasm with Elizabeth Kenny is the one to go for.

 

[MRC01]

I decided to explore various threads here on ASR to see what classical music people enjoy. So far, one recommendation that stood out for me was John Dowland's "Lachrimae". After looking at what's available on streaming services, it seems like the recording by Phantasm with Elizabeth Kenny is the one to go for.

If you like Dowland's works, I can share several good recordings from my collection. Joel Fredericksen and his ensemble have a couple of albums, one (Tell me True Love) dedicated to Dowland, the other (The Elfin Knight) having Dowland along with a mix of wonderful music from that time. Emma Kirkby also has at least 2 albums, one with the Chelys Consort of Viols, another older one with the Consorte of Musicke and Rooley. Grace Davidson sang the first book of songs with David Miller on Lute, Andreas Scholl sang them with Concerto di Viole and Julian Behr, and Jakob Lindgren played them on solo lute on BIS.

I haven't heard the one with Kenny, but I do see it Qobuz so I will check it out.

 

[Robin L]

I decided to explore various threads here on ASR to see what classical music people enjoy. So far, one recommendation that stood out for me was John Dowland's "Lachrimae". After looking at what's available on streaming services, it seems like the recording by Phantasm with Elizabeth Kenny is the one to go for.

My copy of the first volume of Nigel North's set of Dowland's complete Lute music turned out to be defective, so I checked out Ebay and found the complete set, new, for $20 and ordered it. I've owned Paul O'dette's and Jakob Lindberg's complete sets and Nigel North's is my favorite so far. Jordi Savall's version with Hesperion XX is my favorite version of the consort version of Lachrimae.

 

[Robin L]

If you like Dowland's works, I can share several good recordings from my collection. Joel Fredericksen and his ensemble have a couple of albums, one (Tell me True Love) dedicated to Dowland, the other (The Elfin Knight) having Dowland along with a mix of wonderful music from that time. Emma Kirkby also has at least 2 albums, one with the Chelys Consort of Viols, another older one with the Consorte of Musicke and Rooley. Grace Davidson sang the first book of songs with David Miller on Lute, Andreas Scholl sang them with Concerto di Viole and Julian Behr, and Jakob Lindgren played them on solo lute on BIS.

I haven't heard the one with Kenny, but I do see it Qobuz so I will check it out.

Emma Kirkby was involved in Anthony Rooley's complete music (12 CDs) of Dowland for L'Oiseau Lyre. It's still in print, Amazon has it for $84.

 

[Liya]

Thanks, guys. After listening to both Emma Kirkby and Joel Frederiksen, I personally feel that female singers suit these songs better than male vocalists. Nigel North's rendition of "Lachrimae" is truly enchanting and exceptionally beautiful. I intend to explore other performances as suggested. I would greatly appreciate any other suggestions.

 

[Robin L]

Thanks, guys. After listening to both Emma Kirkby and Joel Frederiksen, I personally feel that female singers suit these songs better than male vocalists. Nigel North's rendition of "Lachrimae" is truly enchanting and exceptionally beautiful. I intend to explore other performances as suggested. I would greatly appreciate any other suggestions.

This appears to be a re-recording as it's a hybrid SACD. My CD copy is from 1988.

Hesperion XX also made a recording of the fantasies of Eustache du Caurrory. I've seen this on multiple streaming services. This is a setting of a French folksong, Eustache du Caurroy spins out a lot of variations on the tune. I regret losing the CD of this title, it was reissued but, like most of the Astree catalog, is hard to find these days.