A good Klipsch The Fives upgrade? (powered, 5k max)

[pottemans]

I can't judge the B&W based on that graph alone, nor can I even find it on Hifitest's website.

Is this data anechoic? What reference axis? What's blue, green, red? I don't know.

Edit:
Found the graphs at the end of their product picture carousel ( ) , still too many open questions.

I don’t know if this one helps

 

[kemmler3D]

Ohh so looking at this of the Duo’s, which frequencies would need a little boost?
View attachment 429974

Like @staticV3 said I am not sure exactly how to interpret this, but my guess is the +3 treble trim on the LS60 will get you in the zone. This doesn't seem to have an outright rising response or anything.

e: Based on the second graph, this looks like it has the typical B&W off-axis treble splash, so if you were going to EQ the LS60 to sound more like this, you'd maybe want to boost a little around 3-6khz and then give it a little nudge between 7-15khz.

It's sort of apples and oranges, because the LS60 tries to have smooth dispersion, i.e. about the same frequency response in all directions with a steady decrease in treble. B&W tends to shoot some extra treble off to the sides and have less treble out front, which is a bit of a 'special effect' and can be hit-or-miss in-room. The difficulty is you can't replicate this kind of directional effect with EQ (or any other DSP tool really).

If you really want the uneven B&W splashy thing, I think your best option is to buy B&W... but I wouldn't really recommend it. This is a version of what people mean when they say "showroom sound". It's not necessarily a bad thing and I have owned (and still own) some B&W speakers. But I would say the KEFs easily beat them in terms of clarity and realism.

 

[pottemans]

Like @staticV3 said I am not sure exactly how to interpret this, but my guess is the +3 treble trim on the LS60 will get you in the zone. This doesn't seem to have an outright rising response or anything.

e: Based on the second graph, this looks like it has the typical B&W off-axis treble splash, so if you were going to EQ the LS60 to sound more like this, you'd maybe want to boost a little around 3-6khz and then give it a little nudge between 7-15khz.

It's sort of apples and oranges, because the LS60 tries to have smooth dispersion, i.e. about the same frequency response in all directions with a steady decrease in treble. B&W tends to shoot some extra treble off to the sides and have less treble out front, which is a bit of a 'special effect' and can be hit-or-miss in-room. The difficulty is you can't replicate this kind of directional effect with EQ (or any other DSP tool really).

If you really want the uneven B&W splashy thing, I think your best option is to buy B&W... but I wouldn't really recommend it. This is a version of what people mean when they say "showroom sound". It's not necessarily a bad thing and I have owned (and still own) some B&W speakers. But I would say the KEFs easily beat them in terms of clarity and realism.

Mmh well the Klipsch The Fives with EQ of +3 on Highs are good enough for me in the treble area (even though the B&W’s are even better), so I should be able to recreate at least the same treble sparkle.

Tbh I actually really hated the directivity and changes in sound off-axis on the B&W’s.

I’ll just have to spend an afternoon tinkering with the app settings and perhaps WiiM

 

[Ziltoe]

Klipsch The Nines might be more like the Fives with a touch more bass [...]

That was my first thought as well. They go considerable deeper and treble is adjustable to your likes.

5 vs 9

 

[pottemans]

That was my first thought as well. They go considerable deeper and treble is adjustable to your likes.

5 vs 9

It’s definitely a valid option…

but the size of the Nines put me off (especially the width), the software/app and tbh i want something “new”. Also, as far as I can see the Nines don’t go as low as the Formation Duo’s/LS60’s do but I might be wrong, and I really liked the Duo’s closed design compared to the back ported design of The Fives

 

[thewas]

I can't judge the B&W based on that graph alone, nor can I even find it on Hifitest's website.

Is this data anechoic? What reference axis? What's blue, green, red? I don't know.

Edit:
Found the graphs at the end of Hifitest's product picture carousel ( ) , still too many open questions.

The measurements of that publishing/magazines group (Hifi Test, Klang+Ton, Car&Hifi) are usually anechoic, i.e. gated for the upper range and compensated nearfield for the lower, blue, green and red is usually 0°, 15° and 30° horizontally, when a 4th line appears its usually 45°.

 

[thewas]

Ohh so looking at this of the Duo’s, which frequencies would need a little boost?
View attachment 429974

It seems a reasonable typically euphonic B&W tuning, if you enjoy its sound I wouldn't necessarily change anything.

 

[Ziltoe]

It’s definitely a valid option…

but the size of the Nines put me off (especially the width), the software/app and tbh i want something “new”. Also, as far as I can see the Nines don’t go as low as the Formation Duo’s/LS60’s do but I might be wrong, and I really liked the Duo’s closed design compared to the back ported design of The Fives

The Nines won't go that deep, of course. BTW, back ported designs, did you experience any disadvantage or is it just so?

LS60 vs Klipsch the Nines

In your case I would prefer the KEFs over the B&Ws

Directivity drives somehow, and if this is everything you desire then go with KEF.

 

[pottemans]

The Nines won't go that deep, of course. BTW, back ported designs, did you experience any disadvantage or is it just so?

LS60 vs Klipsch the Nines

In your case I would prefer the KEFs over the B&Ws

Directivity drives somehow, and if this is everything you desire then go with KEF.

i have to position the speakers fairly close to the wall. With the Fives the distance is ‘enough’, but the Nines are bigger so it would be pretty much touching the wall (which is not great in terms of boomy bass and neighbors). I really liked the B&W closed design so I feel like the LS60 will be fine too

 

[Muddywaters]

i have to position the speakers fairly close to the wall. With the Fives the distance is ‘enough’, but the Nines are bigger so it would be pretty much touching the wall (which is not great in terms of boomy bass and neighbors). I really liked the B&W closed design so I feel like the LS60 will be fine too

With the “expert” mode with the LS60’s, as pointed out by @kemmler3D, you have the ability to use the “wall mode” setting to dial back things if a bit muddy due to how close you get them to the wall (sbir). It works. Mine are less than 5 inches away.

I also run mine with subs.

 

[pottemans]

Like @staticV3 said I am not sure exactly how to interpret this, but my guess is the +3 treble trim on the LS60 will get you in the zone. This doesn't seem to have an outright rising response or anything.

e: Based on the second graph, this looks like it has the typical B&W off-axis treble splash, so if you were going to EQ the LS60 to sound more like this, you'd maybe want to boost a little around 3-6khz and then give it a little nudge between 7-15khz.

It's sort of apples and oranges, because the LS60 tries to have smooth dispersion, i.e. about the same frequency response in all directions with a steady decrease in treble. B&W tends to shoot some extra treble off to the sides and have less treble out front, which is a bit of a 'special effect' and can be hit-or-miss in-room. The difficulty is you can't replicate this kind of directional effect with EQ (or any other DSP tool really).

If you really want the uneven B&W splashy thing, I think your best option is to buy B&W... but I wouldn't really recommend it. This is a version of what people mean when they say "showroom sound". It's not necessarily a bad thing and I have owned (and still own) some B&W speakers. But I would say the KEFs easily beat them in terms of clarity and realism.

So I just got the KEF LS60. The midbass to upper frequenties i’m very satisfied with. But my god they sound so anemic even with wall mode off and bass extension on extra. I get that they aim for linearity, but even my Klipsch in the most neutral mode have way more sub/bass. I even hear some people are fine with using these speaker without a sub, which i can’t even imagine (i can with the Klipsch Fives).

Am I doing something wrong!?

 

[kyuu]

I'm not an expert on the LS60 by any means. @Kal Rubinson has them, I believe, and might be able to give better advice. However, my first thought would be if you have tried the standard/less settings for bass extension. More extension usually comes at the cost of maximum SPL.

 

[pottemans]

I'm not an expert on the LS60 by any means. @Kal Rubinson has them, I believe, and might be able to give better advice. However, my first thought would be if you have tried the standard/less settings for bass extension. More extension usually comes at the cost of maximum SPL.

I’ve tried all settings and with pretty much everyone of them, it’s only audible starting around maybe 38hz but even then it’s very subtle…

 

[kemmler3D]

So I just got the KEF LS60. The midbass to upper frequenties i’m very satisfied with. But my god they sound so anemic even with wall mode off and bass extension on extra. I get that they aim for linearity, but even my Klipsch in the most neutral mode have way more sub/bass. I even hear some people are fine with using these speaker without a sub, which i can’t even imagine (i can with the Klipsch Fives).

Am I doing something wrong!?

Hmm, the KEFs should not sound super weak compared to the Fives in the bass. The Fives have a bit of a scooped sound while the LS60s are pretty flat / tilted down, so if anything you'd expect to hear weak treble.

I would first ask, did you put them in the exact same spot or are the LS60s somewhere away from the walls? Boundary interference might be the first guess...

 

[pottemans]

Hmm, the KEFs should not sound super weak compared to the Fives in the bass. The Fives have a bit of a scooped sound while the LS60s are pretty flat / tilted down, so if anything you'd expect to hear weak treble.

I would first ask, did you put them in the exact same spot or are the LS60s somewhere away from the walls? Boundary interference might be the first guess...

Pretty much the same spot. what boundaries should i look out for?

From 38hz and up it’s audible but still very anemic. Voices on TV shows etc sound very nasally

 

[kemmler3D]

Pretty much the same spot. what boundaries should i look out for?

Any hard surfaces between about 3 and 7 feet can be problematic, so if anything is different in that regard, it could explain it. https://arqen.com/acoustics-101/speaker-placement-boundary-interference/

Otherwise I wonder if you have any EQ settings or anything upstream from the LS60s that might be pulling bass out?

 

[pottemans]

Any hard surfaces between about 3 and 7 feet can be problematic, so if anything is different in that regard, it could explain it. https://arqen.com/acoustics-101/speaker-placement-boundary-interference/

Otherwise I wonder if you have any EQ settings or anything upstream from the LS60s that might be pulling bass out?

I have no ‘weird’ EQ settings. I have them in Expert mode, wall mode off, bass extension on extra.

The frenquencies below 38hz are pretty much inaudible, which is a bummer because I was expecting them to go (almost) as low as the B&W Formation Duo, but with at least the same volume at the frequencies till like 28hz. Above 38hz it’s also not that audible and at 50hz + it’s less than the Fives which I daily drive. That’s why it all sounds very anemic to me.

 

[kyuu]

Do you have the means to apply EQ upstream of the LS60s? You may just be used to an elevated bass response which the LS60s won't provide on their own. Boosting the bass with EQ might get you what you're looking for, and I'd be surprised if the LS60s couldnt handle it.

Also, do you have the ability to perform any measurements?

 

[pottemans]

Do you have the means to apply EQ upstream of the LS60s? You may just be used to an elevated bass response which the LS60s won't provide on their own. Boosting the bass with EQ might get you what you're looking for, and I'd be surprised if the LS60s couldnt handle it.

Also, do you have the ability to perform any measurements?

I don’t think i have the equipment for that i think, maybe i connect my laptop and use a 10 band EQ?

Do both the Klipsch The Fives and the Formation Duo have elevated bass?

 

[JustJones]

Did you buy these new or used?