A good advice about changing audio system

[rmcc]

my WiiM Pro / Aiyima A80 is connected PC>>Toslink>>WiiM Pro>>Toslink>>Aiyima A80 (also have the A80 connected to PC with USB but I am using the optical SPDIF)
my Ultra + Vibelink is connected WiFi>>Ultra>>Toslink>>Vibelink (also have HDMI input from TV connected to the Ultra)

Ok, got it. I also prefer to connect my devices with spdif instead xlr/trs connections...unfornately it seems 3e Audio A5/A7 don't have spdif inputs.
So, i think that you control the volume with Ultra remote, like i said on my previous post.

 

[CptKaos]

Ok, got it. I also prefer to connect my devices with spdif instead xlr/trs connections...unfornately it seems 3e Audio A5/A7 don't have spdif inputs.
So, i think that you control the volume with Ultra remote, like i said on my previous post.

" So, i think that you control the volume with Ultra remote" yes

 

[rmcc]

my WiiM Pro / Aiyima A80 is connected PC>>Toslink>>WiiM Pro>>Toslink>>Aiyima A80 (also have the A80 connected to PC with USB but I am using the optical SPDIF)
my Ultra + Vibelink is connected WiFi>>Ultra>>Toslink>>Vibelink (also have HDMI input from TV connected to the Ultra)
View attachment 489605

Very nice systems, love it

 

[rmcc]

" So, i think that you control the volume with Ultra remote" yes

I think i'm searching the impossible...an class D amp with 100-105 dB SINAD, remote control, affordable and with spdif input...

 

[Good Vibes]

But Ultra has an spdif output...wouldn't be better use that?

The 3E Audio amp only has XLR/TRS & RCA inputs and can only be connected to the Ultra’s RCA.

 

[rmcc]

The 3E Audio amp only has XLR/TRS & RCA inputs and can only be connected to the Ultra’s RCA.

Yeah, i noted that...unfornately isn't what i'm looking for. Why these manufacturers just don't add spdif to their products?

 

[AnalogSteph]

Because "adding an SPDIF input" amounts to adding an entire DAC with an extra power supply section and accommodating the extra inputs. Toslink receivers and transmitters also aren't as common as they used to be.

 

[rmcc]

Because "adding an SPDIF input" amounts to adding an entire DAC with an extra power supply section and accommodating the extra inputs. Toslink receivers and transmitters also aren't as common as they used to be.

Well, it seems the manufacturers (maybe chiinese ones) are forgetting that part, and from my point of view not investing on digital part, becasue it's more cheap have only analogue inputs. And people just follow that.

 

[dominikz]

I think i'm searching the impossible...an class D amp with 100-105 dB SINAD, remote control, affordable and with spdif input...

So why not consider WiiM Amp Pro or Amp Ultra?
They check all these boxes, have EQ, room correction and bass management built-in.
Do you need more power perhaps?

You can find my measurements of both here.

 

[rmcc]

So why not consider WiiM Amp Pro or Amp Ultra?
They check all these boxes, have EQ, room correction and bass management built-in.
Do you need more power perhaps?

You can find my measurements of both here.

Yes, you're absolutlely right, WiiM Amp Pro check all boxes. But...
The specs of my speakers say: 170W (nominal), 340 W (peak) with an impedance from 4-8 ohm...i don't know if it's 170 W @ 4 ohm or 8 ohm, i guess it's 4 ohm.
Maybe on 8 ohm could have around 105-115 W.
After reading WiiM Amp Pro specs, i said to myself: That's it, that's the one...then i looked at Power... 60W @ 8 ohm, 120W @ 4 ohm, so i was very disappointed with those values.
Pay more than 400 eur for a device with "only" 60 and 120 W, seems not right for the price.
Just to compare Aiyima A80 has 300Wx2 @ 4 ohm
On the other hand, the WiiM Amp Ultra, has more nice "numbers (power)"...but it's an all-in-one device, in the future i can't upgrade the amplification part.

 

[dominikz]

Yes, you're absolutlely right, WiiM Amp Pro check all boxes. But...
The specs of my speakers say it has 170W (nominal), 340 W (peak) with an impedance from 4-8 ohm...i don't know if it's 170 W at 4 ohm or 8 ohm, i guess it's 4 ohm.
Maybe on 8 ohm could have around 105-115 W.
After reading WiiM Amp Pro specs, i said to myself: That's it, that's the one...then i looked at Power... 60W @ 8 ohm, 120W @ 4 ohm, so i was very disappointed with those values.
Pay more than 400 eur for a device with "only" 60 and 120 W, seems not right and i want spend around 300 eur, max.
On the other hand, the WiiM Amp Ultra, has more nice "numbers (power)"...but it's an all-in-one device, in the future i can't upgrade the amplification part.

Note that the power rating of your speakers just tells you how much they can handle before blowing up, not what you actually need to drive them properly.

The actually required amplifier power is instead mainly dictated by:
1) How loud you listen
2) Listening distance
3) Loudspeaker sensitivity

Have a look at this post for some more details and an example.

Note that many people actually use just a few watts of amp power on average.

 

[rmcc]

Note that the power rating of your speakers just tells you how much they can handle before blowing up, not what you actually need to drive them properly.

The actually required amplifier power is instead mainly dictated by:
1) How loud you listen
2) Listening distance
3) Loudspeaker sensitivity

Have a look at this post for some more details and an example.

Note that many people actually use just a few watts of amp power on average.

Mate, this is amazing
I know that the sound has an logarithmic scale, but i have no idea that the difference from 60W to 100W it was only 2 dB. My living room haas 3,5 mt for 7 meters, the speakers are 2,5 mts listening distance.
So, are you telling me that i'll be well served with the WiiM Amp Pro? Becasue at this i'm about to give up to buy an streamer + amp and just buy the WiiM Amp Ultra...all-in-one.
And by the way, why not replace WiiM Amp Pro by Vibelink?

 

[dominikz]

So, are you telling me that i'll be well served with the WiiM Amp Pro?

Well I can't say what will be loud enough for you, but both the Amp Pro and Amp Ultra are more than loud enough for me in a similar size room and at a similar listening distance.

And my speakers are significantly less sensitive than those Magnat towers you wrote you have - meaning both amps should play even louder in your system.

Using the Benchmark "Amplifier + Speaker Output Calculator" (link) with a 60W amp and a pair of 92dB sensitivity speakers you should be able to reach a maximum of 108dB SPL at 2.5m listening distance. Even if we assume average level of content is much lower (typically -14dBFS for streaming) you should comfortably reach about 94dB SPL average. Add +2-3dB for the 100W Amp Ultra.
Either is loud enough to not be safe for very long periods.

Still, to avoid any risk I'd suggest to order from somewhere with a good return policy.

Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[dominikz]

And by the way, why not replace WiiM Amp Pro by Vibelink?

Vibelink doesn't have any EQ, bass management or streaming functionality.
It is a basic poweramp with a built-in DAC.
If that's all you need I guess it's a good option.

 

[rmcc]

Well I can't say what will be loud enough for you, but both the Amp Pro and Amp Ultra are more than loud enough for me in a similar size room and at a similar listening distance.

And my speakers are significantly less sensitive than those Magnat towers you wrote you have - meaning both amps should play even louder in your system.

Using the Benchmark "Amplifier + Speaker Output Calculator" (link) with a 60W amp and a pair of 92dB sensitivity speakers you should be able to reach a maximum of 108dB SPL at 2.5m listening distance. Even if we assume average level of content is much lower (typically -14dBFS for streaming) you should comfortably reach about 94dB SPL average. Add +2-3dB for the 100W Amp Ultra.
Either is loud enough to not be safe for very long periods.

Still, to avoid any risk I'd suggest to order from somewhere with a good return policy.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Ok, i got it. I found a table of Noise levels, 108 db it's really loud.

 

[rmcc]

Vibelink doesn't have any EQ, bass management or streaming functionality.
It is a basic poweramp with a built-in DAC.
If that's all you need I guess it's a good option.

Well, from our previous chat and what you told me i'll consider the WiiM Amp Pro as my main option. If you were in my place, will you decide buy WIIm Ulta + WiM Amp Pro or just WiiM Amp Ultra?

 

[dominikz]

Ok, i got it. I found a table of Noise levels, 108 db it's really loud.

It is, yes. Prolonged exposure to levels above about 80dB SPL can lead to hearing damage; these are e.g. NIOSH guidelines for safe exposure levels:

Well, from our previous chat and what you told me i'll consider the WiiM Amp Pro as my main option. If you were in my place, will you decide buy WIIm Ulta + WiM Amp Pro or just WiiM Amp Ultra?

Personally I prefer all-in-one options, and for my own use WiiM Amp Pro was a great choice.

You may have different priorities, however.

These are some of the options offered by WiiM, with some main characteristics listed:

• WiiM Amp Ultra
  • All-in-one
  • 100W @ 8 Ohm
  • 2x TPA3255 chips mean it can drive low-impedance loudspeakers (not relevant for you)
  • Touchscreen
  • Premium remote design
  • Current flagship so FW updates are more frequent
• WiiM Amp Pro
  • All-in-one
  • 60W @ 8 Ohm (not a very big difference in power
  • Cheaper than Amp Ultra
• WiiM Amp
  • All-in-one
  • 60W @ 8 Ohm (not a very big difference in power)
  • Lacks PFFB so unlike the others this one is load-sensitive (results in a small 0.5-1dB boost at high frequencies with many loudspeakers)
  • The only amp in the line with Airplay support
  • Cheapest of the bunch
• WiiM Amp Ultra streamer + WiiM Vibelink power amplifier
  • Two separate devices
  • 100W @ 8 Ohm (but with a single TPA3255 chip)
  • Touchscreen
  • You get a phono input and additional outputs (including a headphone output)
  • Some people like the modularity, but I personally find it fiddly.
  • The most expensive option

If you go for separates there's also the option to mix and match - e.g. you could pair a WiiM Ultra streamer with e.g. a 3E Audio power amp (as some suggested), or you could pair a WiiM Pro streamer with a WiiM Vibelink, etc... many options are possible depending on your specific needs.

Note that with separates you need to take care about gain staging/optimal levels, triggering/automation/control and integration in general. People have been known to experience various glitches and artifacts in certain combinations and specific situations - so I advise careful research if you go this way, just something to keep in mind. This is one of the reason why I prefer all-in-ones.

Lastly, you can listen to clips recorded through WiiM Amp Pro and WiiM Amp Ultra here (and read about my own listening impressions comparing the two).

TLDR; once you compensate the level and polarity differences both WiiM Amp Pro and WiiM Amp Ultra they basically offer the same sound quality. You should choose based on features you need, and how loud you listen.

 

[rmcc]

It is, yes. Prolonged exposure to levels above about 80dB SPL can lead to hearing damage; these are e.g. NIOSH guidelines for safe exposure levels:

Personally I prefer all-in-one options, and for my own use WiiM Amp Pro was a great choice.

You may have different priorities, however.

These are some of the options offered by WiiM, with some main characteristics listed:

• WiiM Amp Ultra
  • All-in-one
  • 100W @ 8 Ohm
  • 2x TPA3255 chips mean it can drive low-impedance loudspeakers (not relevant for you)
  • Touchscreen
  • Premium remote design
  • Current flagship so FW updates are more frequent
• WiiM Amp Pro
  • All-in-one
  • 60W @ 8 Ohm (not a very big difference in power
  • Cheaper than Amp Ultra
• WiiM Amp
  • All-in-one
  • 60W @ 8 Ohm (not a very big difference in power)
  • Lacks PFFB so unlike the others this one is load-sensitive (results in a small 0.5-1dB boost at high frequencies with many loudspeakers)
  • The only amp in the line with Airplay support
  • Cheapest of the bunch
• WiiM Amp Ultra streamer + WiiM Vibelink power amplifier
  • Two separate devices
  • 100W @ 8 Ohm (but with a single TPA3255 chip)
  • Touchscreen
  • You get a phono input and additional outputs (including a headphone output)
  • Some people like the modularity, but I personally find it fiddly.
  • The most expensive option

If you go for separates there's also the option to mix and match - e.g. you could pair a WiiM Ultra streamer with e.g. a 3E Audio power amp (as some suggested), or you could pair a WiiM Pro streamer with a WiiM Vibelink, etc... many options are possible depending on your specific needs.

Note that with separates you need to take care about gain staging/optimal levels, triggering/automation/control and integration in general. People have been known to experience various glitches and artifacts in certain combinations and specific situations - so I advise careful research if you go this way, just something to keep in mind. This is one of the reason why I prefer all-in-ones.

Lastly, you can listen to clips recorded through WiiM Amp Pro and WiiM Amp Ultra here (and read about my own listening impressions comparing the two).

TLDR; once you compensate the level and polarity differences both WiiM Amp Pro and WiiM Amp Ultra they basically offer the same sound quality. You should choose based on features you need, and how loud you listen.

Thanks a lot for your help and patience, dominikz, i have no words to express my gratitude. It's a pleasure read your writing.

As you can see, i'm bouncing between buy an Streamer + Amp or buy an all-in-one device. This isn't a easy choice, because for me, when i buy some product, they have to last a lot of time (I still have an Technics SU-V7X, working perfectly, a gift from my father)

Technics/Panasonic SU-V7X Specifications Technics/Panasonic

That's why i bought the Magnat, this amp has 100 W @ 8 ohm, currently is in my office.


Some weeks ago, i started to watch some streamer devices, (like WiiM, Eversolo, Cambrigde, Bluesound) and i came to a conclusion...that this is a very expensive market.
So i start digging a little more, and i found out that WiiM was offering good products at a reasonable price, but even so not cheap products, so i decided to go with WiiM.

Now, after reading A LOT about it, lots of people recommended buy separate devices, i can understand that, because futures updates.
But, in nowadays, you have to be very carefull when you buy expensive products, because if you miss some important feature, you can't return it after a month (like Amazon), and you'll ended regret buy it...unless you're a rich guy and don't care about money.

Like i said, i decided to go with WiiM, and follow people advice, buy separate...but, my initial idea was just like yous, buy a all-in-one device. So, i've this feeling that buying an all-in-one device will be the right choice and not go, like you said worried about staging/optimal levels, triggering/automation/control and integration in general...
So, i'll wait for black friday and then i'll decide. I'll post my decision here.

Also, in my experience, most of these chinese products have poor or any support or firmware upgrades, all that matters is sell. (Aiyima, Topping, Fosi Audio, SMSL, are chinese brands)

 

[dominikz]

Thanks a lot for your help and patience, dominikz, i have no words to express my gratitude. It's a pleasure read your writing.

Glad to hear you find it useful!

As you can see, i'm bouncing between buy an Streamer + Amp or buy an all-in-one device. This isn't a easy choice, because for me, when i buy some product, they has to last fa lot of time (I still have an Technics SU-V7X, working perfectly, a gift from my father)

Technics/Panasonic SU-V7X Specifications Technics/Panasonic That's why i bought the Magnat, this amp has 100 W @ 8 ohm

If this is a major factor for you note that any app-oriented product would be much less useful if the app ever stops being available and/or developed for any reason.
However, in case of WiiM devices the amazing, and constantly developed app and firmware is really that which makes them as good as they are.
Both of this is a factor to consider, for sure.

Now, after reading A LOT, about it, a lot of people was recommending to buy separate devices, i can understand that, because futures updates.
But, in nowadays, you have to be very carefull when you buy expensive products, because if you miss some important feature, you can't return it after a month (Amazon), and you'll ended regreat to buy it...unless you're a rich guy and don't care about money.

So, i decided to go with WiiM, and follow people advice, buy separate...but, my initial idea was just like yous, buy a all-in-one device. So, i've this feeling that buying an all-in-one device will be the right choice and not go, like you said worried about staging/optimal levels, triggering/automation/control and integration in general...
So, i'll wait for black friday and then i'll decide. I'll post my decision here.

Also, in my experience, most of these chinese products have poor or any support or firmware upgrades, all that matters is sell. (Aiyima, Topping, Fosi Audio, SMSL, are chinese brands)

If that's any help, in my own experience WiiM software support has been truly amazing for the most part.
Haven't had any hardware issues yet so can't comment on that side.

 

[rmcc]

Glad to hear you find it useful!

If this is a major factor for you note that any app-oriented product would be much less useful if the app ever stops being available and/or developed for any reason.
However, in case of WiiM devices the amazing, and constantly developed app and firmware is really that which makes them as good as they are.
Both of this is a factor to consider, for sure.

If that's any help, in my own experience WiiM software support has been truly amazing for the most part.
Haven't had any hardware issues yet so can't comment on that side.

Hi, Just got my choice done