A few questions about EQ, configuration, Subwoofer and maybe some other things.

[DWPress]

EQ three channels, effectively creating a crossover for the subwoofer. This requires three channels of amplification which wouldn't be a problem because I have the Topping PA5 II and most subwoofers have amplifiers built in. Where the problem comes is that there aren't too many multi-channel DACs on the market, and those that do exist are expensive.

As Keith mentioned, pro audio interfaces. But also something as simple as a ASUS sound card. Buy something used to try out the process maybe, lots of 2i4s on eBay.

EQ two channels and try to balance the sub and bookshelf speakers that way. I can do this with the existing setup, using the SE RCA outputs from the SMSL DAC and fiddling with the crossover in whatever sub I get. Maybe less optimal that EQing three channels separately, but no additional cost or swapping out of components

If you're committed to keeping the gear you have then this is the best place to start. You'll hook it up, fiddle with it, measure it, you might get lucky and like the sound you get. If not move forward, you'll have learned your way around REW while your at it.

EQ external to the source

1. Often allows EQ for more than three channels, examples include the miniDSP 2x4 mentioned earlier, as well as the miniDSP Flex.
   • With both of the miniDSP options I'll loose the headphone amplifier functionality that I have

Again, if you're keeping your gear then the miniDSP 2x4 is your best option for sub integration. You can still use your headphone amp. Look into the app SoundSource, it allows you to put PEQ or even FIR on any individual audio device connected to your computer like your DAC.

I'd still recommend something in the WiiM offerings over the forthcoming Topping. WiiM has just really nailed the UI and the firmware updates keep bringing new features. Just like hi-rez audio purchases are not necessary - same with balanced connections unless you're in an environment subject to noise. Single ended is fine unless you have a ground loop. I was obsessed with DA-AD-DA conversions and sample rate when I started out too with my first miniDSP - ultimately it matters far far less than a well integrated system and even on the best systems you'd not notice the extra bit of conversion.

You just put up your post with the measurements as I'm typing - only remove peaks and stop at 600hz. It'll sound better, trust me.

 

[Nezil]

Looking at the charts above, the Subwoofer has a dip at ~48 Hz, and the Klipsch bookshelf speakers are a mess with a very big peak at 108 Hz and a dip at ~180, then some other weird things going on at 5k and 10k.

The subwoofer I used is way too big to go under my desk, and it's also way more powerful that I need; I had to turn the gain down a lot to achieve the results I shared.

So I guess I'm in the market for a sub, maybe a 10", one which can still operate up to ~120 Hz to bridge the gap between it and the small desktop speakers. Maybe then also replace the desktop speakers with something that's slightly better behaved without the dip at ~180 and the odd things at the high end?

Any recommendations there?

For sub, I'm currently considering an open box Klipsch R-100SW, mostly because it's cheap and I'll be EQing it, not because I'm any kind of Klipsch fan, even though it may seem that way.

For desktop speakers, Amir reviewed the Micca MB42X G2s well, but they're on a long lead time currently.

 

[Nezil]

You just put up your post with the measurements as I'm typing - only remove peaks and stop at 600hz. It'll sound better, trust me.

Not to discount anything else you wrote... all great help, thank you, but...

I've moved the Sub back downstairs because it's way too big to stay up here, and I'm currently listening to an EQ I built based on your recommendation of only removing peaks and stopping at 600. This was based on a flat target, but I added a Low shelf with 2.5dB gain as well because I preferred the way that sounded.

 

[DWPress]

A smaller sub is more appropriate for a desk setup but it's not going to give you nearly as nice a response. I'm not saying keep the big one. If you can share some pictures of your desk setup we can maybe make some suggestions. I'd hazard to guess your dip at 180Hz is desk bounce or other reflection cancelation.

 

[Nezil]

A smaller sub is more appropriate for a desk setup but it's not going to give you nearly as nice a response. I'm not saying keep the big one. If you can share some pictures of your desk setup we can maybe make some suggestions. I'd hazard to guess your dip at 180Hz is desk bounce or other reflection cancelation.

Thanks, I'll send a photo tomorrow... wife needs me for some 'family time' right now!

 

[DWPress]

I'm currently listening to an EQ I built based on your recommendation of only removing peaks and stopping at 600. This was based on a flat target, but I added a Low shelf with 2.5dB gain as well because I preferred the way that sounded.

Not as much impact only going down to 80Hz, but yeah, a 10" sub will be just fine. A curve with a boost on the bottom is just fine, normal even! It's all about how you like the sound in the end.

 

[Nezil]

Look into the app SoundSource, it allows you to put PEQ or even FIR on any individual audio device connected to your computer like your DAC.

Yup, I'm using SoundSource. Was using AULab stand alone initially, but it's clunky; SoundSource is much easier to switch settings when moving away from my desk.

 

[Nezil]

Photo of my desk:

 

[DWPress]

Ok, maybe pull those speakers away from the wall a bit but doesn't look possible. Between all the reflections I see measurements are going to be tuff. You can add a small sub to this set up and it'll be an improvement for sure. Get that sub and report back with some REW measurements but maybe think about a different way you can configure your listening space to get away from the walls a bit.

edit: if you're using SoundSource check out the free plugin Qrange which will give you 12 PEQ slots to plug your EQ into.

 

[Nezil]

Ok, maybe pull those speakers away from the wall a bit but doesn't look possible. Between all the reflections I see measurements are going to be tuff. You can add a small sub to this set up and it'll be an improvement for sure. Get that sub and report back with some REW measurements but maybe think about a different way you can configure your listening space to get away from the walls a bit.

I started researching subs today, but didn't come to any conclusion... tariff fears are making retailers increase prices and / or not carry stock. I think ideally I'm looking for something 10", low cost, not too powerful, and with a EQ-able response as low as I can, and up to ~120 Hz.

I did also pick up some Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers with failed tweeters for next to nothing today. I like the idea of building some Affordable Accuracy Monitors and will swap these out with the Klipsch units at some point; should be a fun little project and I might even veneer them to make them a little more special!

edit: if you're using SoundSource check out the free plugin Qrange which will give you 12 PEQ slots to plug your EQ into.

How is that different and/or better than the 16 PEQ slots you get with AUNBandEQ?

 

[DWPress]

How is that different and/or better than the 16 PEQ slots you get with AUNBandEQ?

QRange allows you to send filters to L, R or both channels.

 

[Nezil]

QRange allows you to send filters to L, R or both channels.

Cool.

Any recommendations for compact subs for this 2.1 system?

 

[DWPress]

Somewhere here on ASR someone tested 10 different subs in a field, that's where I might start looking. I have no idea what the currently available subs are like.

 

[Nezil]

Somewhere here on ASR someone tested 10 different subs in a field, that's where I might start looking. I have no idea what the currently available subs are like.

Yeah, I did read that thread. At the time, they recommended the ELAC Sub1010, but I can't find that any more.

Hoping for some more up to date recommendations.

 

[obsessive9119]

What’s your idea of “compact”? I have an SVS SB1000, and in general SVS seem to be well regarded.

I’m quite happy with it, though I don’t have any other experience with subs other than a cheap Sony HT one, and one a built myself years back.

 

[Keith_W]

After an EQ targeting the Harman curve, I got this down to:

View attachment 448806

I wouldn't call this a good result, but it's better than I started with, and I think it shows that source correction could potentially get me where I want with the equipment I already have.

It's not clear to me what you are measuring here. Is this one speaker + sub, or both speakers + sub? I presume you are looking to get another sub to fill in that dip between 65-90Hz? Can I ask you what the XO point is between sub and speakers? There may be a chance you can remove or reduce that dip by better time/phase alignment - have you tried that?

I wouldn't call this a bad result, I doubt if that dip that you can see is very audible despite being 25Hz wide and 10dB deep. You can try ERB smoothing and see what happens to the dip. Do not spend any money until you have exhausted the potential of everything you already own!

I would be more interested in fixing that dip between 4kHz - 7kHz. I tried looking for a measurement of your speaker but I couldn't find any. It is likely to be a speaker issue causing that dip, you would need to take more measurements to be sure.

 

[Nezil]

It's not clear to me what you are measuring here. Is this one speaker + sub, or both speakers + sub?

That was only an experiment using a cheap 12" sub that I had in the home theater. It was mostly an experiment to see if I would be able to achieve a decent result by EQing only 2 channels at the source, and relying on a combination of that, and settings for crossover and gain at the sub.

I think it worked in theory, but that sub appears to have weak performance in the 65 - 90 region, and of course the Klipsch speakers on the desktop don't extend really anything below 80 Hz and are already weak by 90.

I presume you are looking to get another sub to fill in that dip between 65-90Hz? Can I ask you what the XO point is between sub and speakers? There may be a chance you can remove or reduce that dip by better time/phase alignment - have you tried that?

I'm not looking to add another sub, I can't use the 12" one because it's way too big, so I am now looking for a compact, maybe 10" unit that will fit under my desk and has enough ability to bridge the gap to my desktop speakers.

I tried all positions of the LPF for the sub, including turning it fully off... and that was the best I could get with that one. As I said though, it doesn't matter anyway because I can't use that sub anyway.

I wouldn't call this a bad result, I doubt if that dip that you can see is very audible despite being 25Hz wide and 10dB deep. You can try ERB smoothing and see what happens to the dip. Do not spend any money until you have exhausted the potential of everything you already own!

I would be more interested in fixing that dip between 4kHz - 7kHz. I tried looking for a measurement of your speaker but I couldn't find any. It is likely to be a speaker issue causing that dip, you would need to take more measurements to be sure.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Klipsch speakers I'm using are the weak link in the entire system... and that's why I mentioned a few posts above about building a pair of Affordable Accuracy Monitors from a pair of Pioneer SP-BS22-LR. This should be very inexpensive and a bit of fun to DIY, and hopefully will resolve the higher frequency issues as well as providing slightly more lower end extension that I'll be trying to improve with a sub.

I'm all for not spending any money until I've exhausted the potential of everything I currently own, but I think I already have identified enough problems with what I have...

• The Klipsch RB-41 IIs need to be replaced because they have some weirdness in the higher frequencies and a weak low end - AAMs are planned here
• I need a sub-woofer to provide support to the desktop speakers, whatever they are. I cannot use the 12" unit I have because
  • It isn't very good for music
  • It's way too big
  • It's part of my home theater system

I have the Pioneer BS22s and I'm ordering the parts to turn them in to AAMs, so the main thing I'm missing right now is a sub, and my budget is $200, maybe $250 tops.