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A case for warm (vintage) amplifiers

but... but... it's not glowing orange! ;)
easy fix:
View attachment 537897
:cool:

in all (well... in some) seriosness, the hk330c was a particularly nice little entry-level receiver. 20 wpc and a very decent FM section.
Elegant cosmetics, too.
Most if not all were made by Inkel in Korea, if memory serves.
They were (as some would put it) hella popular at my alma mater in those smoky hazy days. ;)

With the combination of the right type of speaker (fairly high sensitivity) plus HK330C it will be fine. :)

A few years ago my 330C power up a pair of compression drivers. Drivers with 109 dB sensitivity.
Screenshot_2022-05-13_143320.jpg Screenshot_2022-05-13_143311.jpg

With them 20 watts was even overkill.
I had to tinker and lower the FR around 6-7 dB to get it even. So even with minus 6-7 dB it worked really well.:)
 
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You're confusing creating music with reproducing it. When I was around the business back in late 80s early 90s no-one involved - not the artists or the production people - rated vinyl records at all. In their view they degraded the sound that they'd worked so hard to create.

There's no need to use 1970s amplifiers to get fatigue free sound, I doubt it has any bearing on it at all. Fatigue is usually a result of using bad speakers in a highly reflective acoustic (like the typical modern, minimalist, scandi-style living room).

I suspect part of this comes from the look of the 70s amplifiers, especially recievers with their illuminated tuning dials. Lots of warm looking lamps and red LEDS, warm looking wooden side cheeks or cases. Whereas your modern amp - brushed aluminium and blue LEDS. Just have to sound cold and uninviting don't they?
Yes they do. Yes but more modern amps tend to be more clean and detailed rather then warm and less detailed. It is like in modern photography where most people use mirrorless cameras but the lens choice makes a difference of the image, modern lens give one a clean detailed look as more vintage lens give a more 'filmic/character' look.
 
Yes, maybe its true but it did not sound as good (musical) compared to Lp's .
I used to think that too but now my record collection has languished unplayed for more than a decade but my CD collection grows at about 30 discs a year. Even my vintage CD players sound good.

Not sure the amplification has much bearing on that although it is technically vintage (1989 & 1994) but I did try modern Neurochrome pre/power and it was no different.
 
but... but... it's not glowing orange! ;)
easy fix:
View attachment 537897
:cool:

in all (well... in some) seriosness, the hk330c was a particularly nice little entry-level receiver. 20 wpc and a very decent FM section.
Elegant cosmetics, too.
Most if not all were made by Inkel in Korea, if memory serves.
They were (as some would put it) hella popular at my alma mater in those smoky hazy days. ;)

The 330c was made in Japan and Taiwan not Korea. I have the 330c mine says made in Taiwan. The 330c was like the 430 except it did not have the 2 power supplies. You had the 330a and b's that were cap coupled.
 
easy: the people who have nostalgia for 1970s hifi are old men, the richest demographic there is
Lots of younger people are discovering the charm of 70's and 80's components like they are discovering vinyl. If think that lots of 'old men' have abandoned their vinyl for a more digital experience as the older people don't want to get up from their listening chair to change over the Lp !
 
Yes they do. Yes but more modern amps tend to be more clean and detailed rather then warm and less detailed. It is like in modern photography where most people use mirrorless cameras but the lens choice makes a difference of the image, modern lens give one a clean detailed look as more vintage lens give a more 'filmic/character' look.
I put together a full 1970s system from what I had lying about. So- Technics SL1200 MK2 (1979) with a Nagaoka MP50 (also '79), the HK930 receiver ('73 I think?) and some large Akai 4 way 6 driver speakers (1973). I had a pal come over who's a sound engineer. Runs a £750K FOH system at work.

Put on some Isaac Hayes for him (music got to be period correct too ofc) and he agreed that it could not sound more seventies. But was that down to the amp? Maybe a little.
 
Lots of younger people are discovering the charm of 70's and 80's components like they are discovering vinyl. If think that lots of 'old men' have abandoned their vinyl for a more digital experience as the older people don't want to get up from their listening chair to change over the Lp !
young people don't have enough purchase power to be driving the prices up on those components, and vinyl's been discovered many times since I was gobbling it up for literal pennies back in my 20s.
 
With the combination of the right type of speaker (fairly high sensitivity) plus HK330C it will be fine. :)

A few years ago my 330C power up a pair of compression drivers. Drivers with 109 dB sensitivity.
View attachment 537922 View attachment 537923

With them 20 watts was even overkill.
I had to tinker and lower the FR around 6-7 dB to get it even. So even with minus 6-7 dB it worked really well.:)
My 330c drives my old Rogers Ls2 speakers with ease. My Sansui au-505 drivers my AR 4xa's with ease as well. I do listen in smaller rooms and more nearfield . I think that it might be a falsie that one needs high sensitivity speakers for lower powered amps but room size makes a difference.
 
I'm afraid you've stumbled into the wrong forum.
Do you think that most listeners of music really care about measurements rather then how good a system sounds ? I remember reading many stereophile reviews where the reviewer liked the sound of the component but it did not measure all that well via John Aktinsons (sp) detailed measurements.
 
Do you think that most listeners of music really care about measurements rather then how good a system sounds ? I remember reading many stereophile reviews where the reviewer liked the sound of the component but it did not measure all that well via John Aktinsons (sp) detailed measurements.
Quality of sound is inextricably linked to measured performance.

All those magazine reviews, they always say they like what they hear. They're advertorials, not impartial consumer advice.
 
My 330c drives my old Rogers Ls2 speakers with ease. My Sansui au-505 drivers my AR 4xa's with ease as well. I do listen in smaller rooms and more nearfield . I think that it might be a falsie that one needs high sensitivity speakers for lower powered amps but room size makes a difference.
Also add; if you don't play at such a high volume. For example if you live in an apartment and don't want to disturb sensitive neighbors.
Plus if you don't play extremely dynamic music that requires much power (amp headroom).

There are calculators where you can work with that. It gives an indication anyway:
Screenshot_2026-06-09_163039.jpg
(LIstening distance in the calculator take it with a pinch of salt. That's true for free space, but rarely in a normally furnished listening/living room that functions as a reverb chamber, roughly. You can easily measure it with it, even a free dB app, to verify that this is the case.)
 
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Having a background in producing and working with analytical equipment to hear if everything connects well, I would like to make a case for vintage amplifiers with a warm sound, a total opposite.

I have, over time mostly used analytical-"facing" amplifiers. It was all logic, hearing as much of information possible as I was used to. Until the point I went for old Sansui amplifiers, starting with the AU-101 (which is now in use for a secondary set, with the "magic" is in its loudness contour, not so much in its flat settings) and followed by the au-505 that of itself provides a floor of presence audio wise without any aides. Yes, I know that these amplifiers are totally not anywhere near monitor-quality like. In cases they cut off the razor sharp edges at some frequencies, I totally get the critics that this might be not something to look for, given heavy coloration, horrible measurements etc.

images

An image of the au101 on top of the au505, found on the net. Not my photo


But.. for multiple reasons I started to like them.

The Sansui AU-505 has this presence as earlier mentioned. A stable floor of bass, nothing that feels compressed, a nice roll-off and a great mid-range quality. When turning on the music is present at the start, turning the volume up is like lifting that presence, instead of just turning up the volume. When I turn on any modern amp, it is like a screen that barely has presence at low volumes (yes, I know.. loudness control is absent on my NAD) and can be too articulating. Something, which I admit, might be pleasant to others. I get why people like that, it is what should be presented.

But when listening to a recording through the au505 it is more theatrical, as sitting a bit away from what is performed on a stage in a theatre. A recording of a Hendrix album presents itself as atmospheric, not one to get lost in by listening to byproducts. It is the tone and the emotion. Not that much the 'sitting in between' the musicians as in a studio where every breath and tiny scratch is audible. Maybe analytical amps work for that as in 'I want to be there with the engineer', i get that.

When watching a film, the soundscape on one of these amps seems much more coherent and the film draws more attention to itself with the soundmixing coming up next. Recently I connected the NAD again, just to compare. But the first thing I noticed was that every added layer of sound drew my attention away as a collage, a knife being sharpened for example (with the most used stock sound for that purpose probably) It should be complimentary to what's on screen, not drawing attention to itself. But it was. It gave the blue print.The Au505 does not have that, the slicing sound is still there, but it does not become the most important thing at that moment. Which is what I personally prefer as a viewer.

The case that I would like to make is that I think it is not only the theatrical sense in music. Also films are being uplifted by the vintage toning. Maybe a bit comparable to why a 24fps frame rate film being properly color graded as well, feels theatrical, compared to a much higher frame rate with much more emphasis on clarity and sharpness.

A case for 'less is more'

Disclaimer : I know there are modern brands that should perhaps offer similar experiences, I know Luxman and others are there in the "vintage times" as well besides Sansui, but I could only write about these two from experience in a well treated room.

Anyone else who is on this bandwagon? : )
Being the owner of 6 NAD 2200's and 2 2100's, I am curious as to which NAD you are talking about?

Never mind, I eventually saw it (314 [and have ZERO knowledge of it]).
 
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I used to think that too but now my record collection has languished unplayed for more than a decade but my CD collection grows at about 30 discs a year. Even my vintage CD players sound good.

Not sure the amplification has much bearing on that although it is technically vintage (1989 & 1994) but I did try modern Neurochrome pre/power and it was no different.
Bring out your old TT get a 70's component and see if you can re-establish your past love for Lp's or just send them over here ! CD's are cheap now you can find them at thrift stores for 1.00 so you can get millions of them.
 
Also add; if you don't play at such a high volume. For example if you live in an apartment and don't want to disturb sensitive neighbors.
Plus if you don't play extremely dynamic music that requires much power (amp headroom).

There are calculators where you can work with that. It gives an indication anyway:
View attachment 537926
(LIstening distance in the calculator take it with a pinch of salt. That's true for free space, but rarely in a normally furnished listening/living room that functions as a reverb chamber, roughly. You can easily measure it with it, even a free dB app, to verify that this is the case.)
I play the au-505 around volume 11, using my Dual 1229 TT -> CJ pv-6 -> au-505. I own my on house so I can play it as loud as I want. What Lp's would you suggest to try dynamic range? I play all kinds of music: rock, classical, jazz from 50's to present.
 
Quality of sound is inextricably linked to measured performance.

All those magazine reviews, they always say they like what they hear. They're advertorials, not impartial consumer advice.
Yes, but measurements don't always equate to sonic enjoyment.
 
I play the au-505 around volume 11, using my Dual 1229 TT -> CJ pv-6 -> au-505. I own my on house so I can play it as loud as I want. What Lp's would you suggest to try dynamic range? I play all kinds of music: rock, classical, jazz from 50's to present.
Vinyl, someone else more familiar with its dynamics may be able to help you with that BUT you can browse here :

....and see if you can find something that interests you: :)

Edit:
This classic seems to have decent dynamics on vinyl. :)

____

SourceVinyl
ArtistMuddy Waters
AlbumFolk Singer [2 Vinyls]
Year2011
Album DR16
Min. track DR12
Max. track DR19
 
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Yes, but relied on their ears along with a background in tube equipment. They were building circuits that resembled an analog concept rather then digital. The inventors of CD's made wild claims that measurements suppose showed that a CD could capture all the sound that a human could hear thus get rid of Lp's and endorse CD's.
Yeah. Those wild claims are from Nyquist and Shannon. Not from the inventors of CD. :facepalm:
Shannon also made wild claims about Boolean Logic, and many of the fundamental aspects of computer engineering, signal transfer, and theory of information. Really wild claims that were also correct.
You also don't seem to know about the limitations of human hearing.:eek:
 
The 330c was made in Japan and Taiwan not Korea. I have the 330c mine says made in Taiwan. The 330c was like the 430 except it did not have the 2 power supplies. You had the 330a and b's that were cap coupled.

You are totally right and I am a doofus! :facepalm:
For whatever reason, I was thinking of Sherwood of roughly the same era. Thanks for setting the record straight!
Fwiw, that Scott receiver in the photo I posted was a cap coupled, quasicomplementary design. :p
 
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young people don't have enough purchase power to be driving the prices up on those components, and vinyl's been discovered many times since I was gobbling it up for literal pennies back in my 20s.
You would be surprised lots young people have good jobs that pay well they can afford new/used components and vinyl along with paying high ticket prices to see live concerts. I got a lot my Lp's in the mid to late 90's when Lp's were at good price, go my CJ tube stuff in the late 90's at really affordable prices.
 
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