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A Broad Discussion of Speakers with Major Audio Luminaries

Both problems have in my understanding been largely solved over the course of the last 15 years, in studio monitoring, sound reinforcement and high end audio alike, thanks to fullrange cardioids and line sources. Yes, the max SPL of the former is somehow limited, and the effectivity of the latter depends on the relative length of the line to the wavelength, but this is a common thing in ultra compact P.A. systems. Examples:

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You are right, I should have said "most loudspeakers are omnidirectional at low frequencies". Cardioids are different of course, but there are not many of them in the marketplace. The ones I am aware of revert to the directivity of conventional cone/dome systems at mid to high frequencies: e.g. the excellent Dutch and Dutch. The directivity in the spinorama that most matters is the "early reflections DI" as it pertains to the second loudest sounds arriving at the listener's ears. The differences I see in the spinoramas are pretty small in the mid/high frequency range. There are numerous examples in slide show 6 in the 4th edition website and several in my Toronto AES lecture on YouTube. I'm sure you have been browsing them yourself, so perhaps you can provide some measurements - polar plots are not very useful.
Line sources tend to have wide horizontal dispersion, radiating a cylindrical wavefront if they are true floor-to-ceiling line sources. Truncated lines can be messy. The "line source" with a useful difference is the CBT (constant beamwidth transducer), and that sometimes seems to defy physics. It is described in my books and in AES papers. In some modes it constructively utilizes a boundary reflection.
 
When this is done in double-blind fashion there are decades of results showing usefully reliable opinions from hundreds of listeners of all backgrounds. The principal factor causing statistical variations has been hearing loss.

I would expect the mix and mastering aesthetics of the music material presented at tests to play a crucial role here as well. I mean, if you present treble-rich, overly brillant, Autotune-laden pop music to listeners who have been attending non-amplified chamber music concerts mostly, you would expect a completely different (dull, forgiving, treble/brilliance-attenuating, more distant sounding) loudspeaker to be preferred, compared to presenting some dull/overly reverberant historic one-point recordings of Baroque music made in a wooden church to people being used to P.A. systems in Hiphop and Techno clubs (who naturally prefer bass and treble rich, dynamic and more aggressive sounding speakers). I am picturing the most extreme examples, naturally, but I hope you get the idea.

Both in sighted and controlled blind tests I found the no. 1 cause of preference variations to be the music material. Particularly when asked about tonal balance, transparency and subjectively natural reproduction, you can basically flip the preference of a majority of listeners by just choosing mixes which are more pleasant, or fatiguing, or dull to their ears. That is why I always appreciated the opinion of experienced recording engineers particularly from public broadcasting institutions and established classical record labels, and encouraged them to bring own material. Would never judge tonal balance of a loudspeaker without having listened to at least 5, better 10 different recordings of classical performances which I had the chance to hear both in the auditorium and the control room during mixing process.

The ones I am aware of revert to the directivity of conventional cone/dome systems at mid to high frequencies: e.g. the excellent Dutch and Dutch.

Fully agree that these are excellent speakers, but I would not call them fullrange cardioids, as the cardioid is in full effect solely down to something like 120Hz. To really experience the effect of fullrange cardioids without annoying SPL restrictions, I found GGNTKT M3, Kii 3BXT and MEG RL921k/901k to be ideal.

I agree that polar plots for a limited number of frequencies are not meant for comparison, but somehow I missed examples of fullrange cardioid D.I. calculations in your lecture. So I would really appreciate an example and your opinion on that one. We seemingly share a positive verdict on the D&D and I would be really interested to know your take on the even more consequential examples I have named. All of these speakers including the D&D in my experience sound overly brillant, thin in the lower midrange and lean/tight in the bass region to listeners who are used to anechoically flat, omnidirectional speakers in the bass/lower midrange combined with waveguides/horns/coaxials showing increasing directivity index and leading to a tilted in-room response, particularly of the diffuse soundfield.

Would go so far to say that listeners who have heard examples of the two aforementioned categories in direct comparison (like K+H150 vs. MEG or KEF R3M vs. D&D) to come to the conclusion that the difference in reverb tonality is so huge that only one of the variants can be called neutral.

The directivity in the spinorama that most matters is the "early reflections DI" as it pertains to the second loudest sounds arriving at the listener's ears.

I agree for applications in which side walls, ceiling or floor are not well damped and relatively close to the speaker, so partly contributing to the perceived tonality of direct sound. This is in my understanding particularly true to recordings without meaningful reverb pattern (rock, pop, electronic music, closed-mic´d jazz/folk and alike).

If you listen to acoustic recordings containing a good portion of the original performance´s reverb, like sacred music, opera, symphonic and alike, tonality of the added reverb in the listening becomes more relevant, and with it I would always take a closer look at the full-space directivity index and the isobaric graphs for angles larger than +-90deg.

Interestingly, an increasing number of loudspeakers lauded for their flat on-axis response and ´smooth directivity´ thanks to waveguides, horn-loaded tweeters, coaxials and alike, seems to produce an overly dull, midrange/presence-heavy reverb field as a result of increasing directivity index towards higher frequencies and everything above a certain threshold. Could never get used to that neither in studio control rooms nor home situations, particularly with classical music.

Truncated lines can be messy.

In theory I agree, but practically some truncated line sources work pretty well. My hypothesis would be that the ´windows of mess´ are usually well attenuated, letting direct sound window and side-wall reflections (and the part of the diffuse field directly depending on these two) dominate to a degree and masking this messiness. Just a theory.

The "line source" with a useful difference is the CBT (constant beamwidth transducer), and that sometimes seems to defy physics.

In theory I agree, but practically I have never been listening to a really good specimen on the market. Potential reason being that all the CBT and curved line sources I encountered, were employing some kind of disadvantegeous array of small drivers, in particular (inverted dome) tweeters and miniaturized cone midranges side by side. I am pretty allergic to lobing, interference effects when slightly turning my head, and the result of improper summation of smaller wavelengths leading to subjectively reduced transparency, phasey and ´edgy´ treble, if that makes sense.
 
There is one poster here who consistently and repeatedly states that sighted listening is completely and totally unreliable. That poster has not participated in this recent discussion.
*your* sighted impressions are useless noise *to me*. [Substitute any number of ASR randos for "your"]

And *my own* come with my inner daemon nagging me, "you could be wrong" , so I'll qualify any claims publicly made thereof by me.

Do I win?
 
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2. Reasonably flat anechoic on-axis frequency response, even if it requires equalization. If the on-axis response isn't flat, and we make it even more non-flat to compensate for some non-flat influence from the room, we end up with flat frequency response from only one reliable location.

I daresay a lot of us here would be FINE with that.

I know that many in the field from Dr. Toole on down have strived to optimize a 'social listening' experience, a laudable goal.

But unless I'm very wrong, there is a quite substantial sector of audio fans who could care less (as we say in NYC) about much beyond getting the friggin' MLP right.

Readers, keep in mind regarding advice about getting good in room sound: Who is the audience?

Krab "hooperian text bloc omitted' apple
 
I would expect the mix and mastering aesthetics of the music material presented at tests to play a crucial role here as well.
We each seem to think we have cornered the market on truth. Maybe both have value, but they are very different "truths".

I can only conclude that you haven't read my book(s), AES papers or viewed my Toronto AES section YouTube lecture, because in my tests aimed at detecting resonances, the dominant flaw in loudspeakers, the actual recordings is used as test signals to energize the resonances. For me the interest in loudspeakers began when I needed technically accurate loudspeakers for my binaural hearing experiments back in 1965, a continuation of my PhD research using headphones. In my naiveté I thought loudspeakers would aim to be as accurate/neutral as electronics. I did anechoic frequency response measurements only to find that loudspeakers of that era were grossly inaccurate. Even the first blind, equal-loudness comparison tests of four loudspeakers at a time revealed a clear preference for loudspeakers that were flattish and smooth on axis. More tests revealed that resonances were what listeners complained about. The highest rated loudspeakers were the most technically accurate, which was not surprising because the same measurements described electronics, wires, etc. in the audio chain. The rest is well-documented history in AES papers and my books.

The resonances are most readily revealed using pink noise. Music was used because it was familiar and because it is the signal through which we normally would be made aware of the resonances. This provided information about how much engineering attention needed to be devoted to attenuating mechanical and acoustical resonances. Not surprisingly the spectral and temporal structure of the music determined the audibility of resonances. I would like to think it is thoroughly detailed in the publications. The results of these evaluations monotonously indicate a preference for resonance-free, timbrally neutral, technically accurate loudspeakers. Such loudspeakers transduce the electrical signal into sound with minimal change.

What do such loudspeakers sound like when playing recordings? It depends on the recordings that are mixed and manipulated in control rooms listening through (probably different) loudspeakers.
This is the origin of the circle of confusion.
Both in sighted and controlled blind tests I found the no. 1 cause of preference variations to be the music material
Of course, so do we all. You are hearing the combined effects of variable recordings interacting with variable loudspeakers. And if you do the same tests in different rooms you will find that the small-room resonances get seriously into the act as well, to the point of even being a potential determining factor.

It sounds that what you are doing is combining the recording, the room and the loudspeaker and asking for opinions. They of course vary. If reproduced through fundamentally neutral loudspeakers it will be necessary to EQ or tone control manipulate some of them to make them appealing to fussy listeners. All assuming that small-room resonances have been attenuated.

Fortunately timbrally neutral loudspeakers are becoming common in recording studios and homes. Human judgement, preference and the effects of hearing loss among musicians and pro audio people ensure a continuing supply of "variable" recordings. Having accurate playback loudspeakers in rooms with attenuated small-room resonances is a good starting point, but "tone controls" will always be necessary I suspect.

I cannot comment on the latest cardioid loudspeakers, I am well retired, and as I have noted many times, I stopped participating in blind listening tests when I was 60 (I'm now 87) because my judgements were showing increased variability. We tracked not only the ratings of loudspeakers but the trustworthiness of listeners. My hearing thresholds then were better than expected for my age, and far better than many practicing recording engineers we have tested. And, as discussed in Chapter 16, there are many dimensions to hearing disabilities that are not revealed by threshold tests.

I would be interested in seeing spinoramas on the loudspeakers you mention - that data tells me more than I am able to hear. You obviously trust what you hear, I could for many years, but . . .
 
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To nuance the discussion a bit, it sometimes on this forum reads like only idiots choose speakers without ABXing them first, while in reality a proper ABX speaker test is so difficult to conduct I strongly suspect 99.9% of the users on the forum have never done one in their lives. They also happily choose speakers without doing so, despite arguing that it's the only reasonable way to tell if there's a real difference.

I also suspect most actually do trust their ears to a certain extent, and rightly so. To be fair people also choose any given speaker based on a number of additional factors beyond sound quality, which is also fine. We're not perfectly rational beings, which I think is mostly a good thing. :)
 
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To nuance the discussion a bit, it sometimes on this forum reads like only idiots choose speakers without ABXing them first, while in reality a proper ABX speaker test is so difficult to conduct I strongly suspect 99.9% of the users on the forum has never done one in their lives. They also happily choose speakers without doing so, despite arguing that it's the only reasonable way to tell if there's a real difference.

I also suspect most actually do trust their ears to a certain extent, and rightly so. To be fair people also choose any given speaker based on a number of additional factors beyond sound quality, which is also fine. We're not perfectly rational beings, which I think is mostly a good thing. :)
Good points. But I'll add another layer of nuance - experimental method. In Section 1.4, at the beginning of the 4th edition I discuss how the method of listening can determine what we hear. The ABX method is excellent for telling us whether there is an audible difference between two very similar sounds like wire, amplifiers, codecs, DACs. It is not a good method for evaluating products which exhibit easily heard differences. We need to be able to scale the differences and reduce the number of variables. The better one is an A/B test, and still better a series of A/B tests involving other products. This is very tedious and time consuming so the best method from every point of view is the A/B/C or A/B/C/D multiple loudspeaker method. It is quick, statistically powerful and easy to set up. Properly done with positional substitution, the loudspeaker is the only variable. I stumbled into it in my first listening test in 1965.
 
I cannot comment on the latest cardioid loudspeakers, I am well retired, and as I have noted many times, I stopped participating in blind listening tests when I was 60 (I'm now 87) because my judgements were showing increased variability.
You may not hear as well as you did 50 years ago, but if I didn't know who you are I could be easily convinced you are 37 years old from the quality and coherency of your writing. Pretty amazing, I think.
 
To nuance the discussion a bit, it sometimes on this forum reads like only idiots choose speakers without ABXing them first, while in reality a proper ABX speaker test is so difficult to conduct I strongly suspect 99.9% of the users on the forum have never done one in their lives. They also happily choose speakers without doing so, despite arguing that it's the only reasonable way to tell if there's a real difference.
This is why Dr Toole's work and the Klippel NFS are so important. Toole and his colleagues performed a lot of tests and arrived at an empirically supported set of general preferences. KNFS allows us to assess loudspeakers against those preferences without needing to run similar tests.
 
To nuance the discussion a bit, it sometimes on this forum reads like only idiots choose speakers without ABXing them first, while in reality a proper ABX speaker test is so difficult to conduct I strongly suspect 99.9% of the users on the forum have never done one in their lives. They also happily choose speakers without doing so, despite arguing that it's the only reasonable way to tell if there's a real difference.

I also suspect most actually do trust their ears to a certain extent, and rightly so. To be fair people also choose any given speaker based on a number of additional factors beyond sound quality, which is also fine. We're not perfectly rational beings, which I think is mostly a good thing. :)

Some good points for sure, but just to nuance your nuance …:-) ….
I think the main thought in this forum is not that we individually have to do ABX tests in order to choose our equipment. But rather, it makes sense to avail ourselves of information about equipment based on proper measurements and/or controlled, listening tests. In other words the idea is that other people have done this work for us, helping us winnow out the good performing equipment from the poor performing equipment.

It’s reasonable for any ASR-minded audiophile to simply restrict their choices to speakers for which there are good measurements and from that field winnow down their choices on whatever other criteria they have (cost looks size…).

In my case, I happen to be interested in a much wider range of speakers, many or most of which do not have spinorama type info.
So that generally leaves me, in those cases, looking at Stereophile-level measurements or often enough there’s no measurements at all available . Which leads me to seeking out the speakers to audition for myself, or sometimes purchasing a speaker used to try out in my home.

But I have no problem with that since I very much enjoy the process of getting out to hear different loudspeakers :-)
 
In other words the idea is that other people have done this work for us, helping us winnow out the good performing equipment from the poor performing equipment.

Absolutely agree. I have stressed many times that at their most basic level, tests are used to identify non-performant equipment.

Double-blind listening tests, OTOH, are used chiefly as an educational tool, to prove to the listener the true nature of their own capabilities.

ABX tests are tests to identify differential characteristics.
 
I'd be very interested to know what @Floyd Toole and the experts here can tell about this speaker from this measurement.

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I'd be interested to know what @Floyd Toole and the experts here can tell about this speaker from this measurement.

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It looks just fine to me: and it should sound very neutral: no obvious audible resonances, flattish frequency response, good DI for a 6" to tweeter crossover meaning that as good as it is, it could be tweaked with equalization to further smooth the on-axis curve. Having the spinorama is very helpful.

And, thanks for the introduction to another manufacturer with the courage to publish spinoramas: Ascend.:).
 
It looks just fine to me: and it should sound very neutral: no obvious audible resonances, flattish frequency response, good DI for a 6" to tweeter crossover meaning that as good as it is, it could be tweaked with equalization to further smooth the on-axis curve. Having the spinorama is very helpful.

And, thanks for the introduction to another manufacturer with the courage to publish spinoramas: Ascend.:).
Thanks for the comment, Dr. Toole. I'm pretty sure that Dave the owner is very familiar with your work, and he was cool enough to sell customers upgrade kits to upgrade his original towers to the latest version at a reasonable cost. I can't think of another speaker company that would do this. I've been very happy with the ELX upgrade, in fact I'm listening to them now while I'm reading your latest book.

When a poor recording needs EQ for my tastes I rely on the native DAC level EQ on my WiiM Ultra.

Thank you for all that you've done for the music industry and people who enjoy listening to hi-fi music.

Full measurements here for anyone interested in the rest of the data: https://www.ascendacoustics.com/col...roducts/elx-tower-pair?variant=40602626916406
 
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It’s true that not only few if any do blind listening tests, I’ll bet few even listen to speakers before purchasing them. We rely on either trusted audio friends (likely few), or, more often, a collection of reactions from reviewers whose biases are understood. I’ve bought most of my speakers in the last few years after reading reviews and tests from sites that I understood - some, like ASR, and others, like Audioholics, are very straightforward in how they review speakers. Other sites have introduced me to speakers I never would have thought of, if not by reading about them, and then speaking extensively with the dealer. It’s difficult today to realistically evaluate speakers as ae would like; there simply aren’t many dealers left to offer listening experience s, and, even then, you’re limited to the selection that dealer offers. My experience has been pretty good, and I think there is probably a correlation between price and quality most of the time in current speakers, at least that has been my experience.
 
It’s true that not only few if any do blind listening tests, I’ll bet few even listen to speakers before purchasing them.
This is probably much more common now than it used to be, with the demise of so many brick-and-mortor audio dealers and the rise of online buying in general and the relative ease of returns and/or later secondary market sales. But ten years ago, I would have been shocked at the very notion.
 
It seems to me that there is a range of performance measures for speakers that affect their ability to meet needs in any particular use case. In no particular order:

1. Lack of resonances. We don't want speakers ringing at certain frequencies for whatever reason--such is often audible and annoying.

2. Reasonably flat anechoic on-axis frequency response, even if it requires equalization. If the on-axis response isn't flat, and we make it even more non-flat to compensate for some non-flat influence from the room, we end up with flat frequency response from only one reliable location. We might get lucky at other locations.

3. Directivity that is tonally sensible off-axis. That means that the tonality of what is sent off-axis bears close enough relationship to what is presented axially that the reflections in the room seem realistic.

4. Dynamic contrast. If the compliance around the drivers becomes elastically non-linear when reaching the limits of its excursion (and assuming the voice coil doesn't mechanically bottom out), the frequencies provided by that driver will not be as loud relative to lower levels as is the signal from the recording. This changes the spectral response if it only happens to one driver, and it will probably affect lower frequencies more than higher frequencies. If all the drivers behave similarly (they won't), then the speaker might simply be unable to play the loud bits as loud relative to the soft bits as was provided on the recording, but without an obvious tonal change. The bigger the room and the higher the demand for listening level (and the smaller the speaker), the more likely this effect will become a noticeable fault. Just like amp clipping, this seems to me to overwhelm other effects in those cases where it is an issue. Isn't this what the additional bass driver in the Salon towers provide compared to, say, the Concerta towers--the ability to get louder without the the bass drivers running out of steam? (Maybe a bad example: Soundstage's measurements at the NRC anechoic chamber of the two didn't note much difference in bass distortion, and the F12 actually had better linearity with respect to 70 dB output when playing at 95 dB. About 5 dB greater sensitivity, too. The Salon also has an additional mid-range driver and much lower distortion around 1KHz, however--that's the significant difference.) Isn't this one of the things that distinguishes large speakers from small speakers? I suspect this effect was not measured in most of Floyd's work, but I may have just missed it. I doubt his preference tests were conducted loudly enough to test compression, especially in the smaller test room. I don't think subwoofers, which are often crossed over well below the crossover between the woofer and the higher drivers, can make up for this if the speakers show a lack. Many will not undertake this use case, but some certainly do. I really don't think my Concerta F12's could make the same dynamics as, say, an Altec A7, which was designed for a much different use case with much larger rooms, even though I know I can play them very loudly.

5. Lack of distortion. At some point, distortion becomes audible. If the distortion in the bass driver is at, say, over 10% (not really that uncommon), the distortion components will be hearable in a comparison, sighted or not, it seems to me. I can hear it. I think this is what makes tubas and french horns sound like trombones--an effect I have experienced in a listening test when I had no knowledge of or interest in the different speakers being demonstrated. The addition of high-frequency distortion products can make that tonal difference.

6. I hesitate to add this, because I've never detected any difference between speakers I could attribute to it: time alignment.

Some of these things are definitely audible. I've heard speakers that were so emphasized in high frequencies that they had a frying-bacon effect. I've heard speakers that distorted so easily in the bass that tubas became trombones or euphoniums when the listening level was increased (NOT when the performer was playing louder). I've heard speakers that muffle loud transients because the driver excursion limits were being reached. I've heard systems that went from realistic to crazy just by walking across the room, even in a room where live performers sound much more consistent from different listening locations. In the times I have set up sound systems, such as at my church, I used careful equalization using calibrated microphones and loudspeakers selected with considerable intentionality, and still noted that in this back corner, treble was suppressed, etc. Having the measurement capability didn't prevent me from using my ears, though it did prevent me from trusting my ears too much.

Finally, about preference testing: The preference results were not unanimous, and the correlations were reasonably strong from a statistical perspective only in the realm of human sensitivities and opinions, where unexplained variability is the frequent result. They describe a sampling of preferences that, because of those statistics, are demonstrated not to be the product of mere chance but that are actually representative, at some level, of the population at large. If we describe those preferences as a random variable described by some probability distribution, we can use the results as a model of what most people prefer. Of course, all models are false, even if some are useful. But it does not state what I may prefer, or what you may prefer, if we, for whatever reason, find ourselves on the tails of that distribution. As such, it's much more instructive to manufacturers because it tells them what the center of the market prefers and therefore what they should design for. It's not necessarily instructive to me, individually, except to suggest that I may have trained myself, intentionally or not, to have preferences outside the norm and perhaps I should consider that.

So, when Floyd makes statements like "people like bass," he's describing a reasonably well-correlated effect from studies, but not necessarily Rick. "People" may like a lot more bass than, say, tuba players, who live in the bass world and want to hear distinctions that may be lost on others. "People" may like bass even when it is distorted at 10% or more, even though the instrument has characteristic overtones at the same levels (20 dB down) as the loudest distortion products. Example: Mr. Gene Pokorny (of the Chicago Symphony) recorded a CD full of orchestral excerpts some years ago, for the benefit of tuba players. In some of the excerpts, he used a B&S F tuba, and in some, he used the CSO's York C tuba that was previously owned by Arnold Jacobs. Most people can't tell the difference listening to the recording, despite that the two instruments are vastly different in size and breadth of sound. Any tuba player can. I've heard well-recorded Youtube videos of orchestral performers comparing similar grand orchestral tubas to that York, and heard distinctions in headphones that speakers in a room did not reveal. Most people would neither care nor notice, of course. (I am certainly NOT suggesting that musicians make good audio system listeners--in my experience their systems don't consistently sound good and it may be that musicians are just good at filling in the blanks from their experience. I'm just suggesting that musicians may be very specific in what they are listening for that is not represented at all in the sorts of preference testing done by Toole, Olive, and so on.)

Ears do matter. The problem is that they are so dominated by eyes and brains, which are easily and uncontrollably swayed by inaudible effects. But that we can't fully trust our ears for making choices in the presence of sighted bias doesn't mean that we still don't use our ears to hear and make judgments about what our systems produce.

Rick "has said all this before" Denney
Mr. Denney: You have pointed out several considerations that deserve consideration (ha ha), and have done so without goading or attacking anyone. Congratulations, that is admirable and adds to the body of knowledge. Good on you!
 
Good points. But I'll add another layer of nuance - experimental method. In Section 1.4, at the beginning of the 4th edition I discuss how the method of listening can determine what we hear. The ABX method is excellent for telling us whether there is an audible difference between two very similar sounds like wire, amplifiers, codecs, DACs. It is not a good method for evaluating products which exhibit easily heard differences. We need to be able to scale the differences and reduce the number of variables. The better one is an A/B test, and still better a series of A/B tests involving other products. This is very tedious and time consuming so the best method from every point of view is the A/B/C or A/B/C/D multiple loudspeaker method. It is quick, statistically powerful and easy to set up. Properly done with positional substitution, the loudspeaker is the only variable. I stumbled into it in my first listening test in 1965.
This is a great point, I really appreciate your view on comparisons of obviously different things. I have an old pair of Yamaha NS-18, with the large ear-shaped Styrofoam woofer. :rolleyes:
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They are a very odd sounding speaker. I (of course :D) have never ABX'ed them. I imagine if I did, they would be fairly easy to distinguish between many other speakers, but I also imagine their flaws would be less apparent in the typical ABX test method. You kind of have to marinate in these things to notice how utterly odd they sound.

And of course, they measure very oddly.
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edit: added figures.
 
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Some good points for sure, but just to nuance your nuance …:-) ….
I think the main thought in this forum is not that we individually have to do ABX tests in order to choose our equipment. But rather, it makes sense to avail ourselves of information about equipment based on proper measurements and/or controlled, listening tests. In other words the idea is that other people have done this work for us, helping us winnow out the good performing equipment from the poor performing equipment.

I agree, but this nuance do lack (or are at least easily missed) in the discussions sometimes. The interpretations of the measurements are also often lacking in nuance. While we know that poorly measuring speakers are likely to have audible problems, when comparing speakers with decent and relatively similar measurements, it's harder for a layman to know just by the measurements which is the "better" speaker for any given situation.

It’s reasonable for any ASR-minded audiophile to simply restrict their choices to speakers for which there are good measurements and from that field winnow down their choices on whatever other criteria they have (cost looks size…).

Agreed.
 
when comparing speakers with decent and relatively similar measurements, it's harder for a layman to know just by the measurements which is the "better" speaker for any given situation.
This is a really good point, and I think while there's always a temptation to exaggerate the little variances between well-performing speakers (is this narcissism of small differences?) this is at least a better flavor of problem than the old one: instead of being lost in the fog and stumbling into the morass of overpriced crap, the pitfalls are shallower, less pernicious.
 
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