8361A’s - First Impressions

[srrxr71]

And then there is this:

Genelec ‘The Ones’ power Morten Lindberg’s stunning immersive studio - Genelec.com

In the world of immersive music recording, no-one has done more than Grammy-winning sound engineer and music producer Morten Lindberg to set the gold standard for what can be achieved in this field. To raise the bar of sonic excellence even further, Lindberg has recently upgraded the monitoring...

www.genelec.com

See yes. I did vaguely remember that you can use subs with w371 and some spaces may need it.

Like run the sub under 60Hz

Okay i’m wrong. If you read into it better. I believe the sub is only reinforcing the surround channels but not the mains.

Darn the mind changes even before the post is finished.

 

[mkt]

And then there is this:

Genelec ‘The Ones’ power Morten Lindberg’s stunning immersive studio - Genelec.com

In the world of immersive music recording, no-one has done more than Grammy-winning sound engineer and music producer Morten Lindberg to set the gold standard for what can be achieved in this field. To raise the bar of sonic excellence even further, Lindberg has recently upgraded the monitoring...

www.genelec.com

There the sub is for LFE so not inconsistent?

 

[srrxr71]

There the sub is for LFE so not inconsistent?

Okay so each main has a w371. But all the surrounds need that one 7380 to fill in their bass. That’s how I read it.

 

[mkt]

Okay so each main has a w371. But all the surrounds need that one 7380 to fill in their bass. That’s how I read it.

"The height positions are handled by four of the lighter, more compact 8341A models, with a 7380A subwoofer handling the LFE. Additionally, an 8320A compact two-way nearfield monitor sits atop the 7380A, to provide an upwards frequency extension above 120 Hz. This acts as a checkpoint into the true content of the LFE channel before it is distributed." Ambiguous to me.

 

[srrxr71]

"The height positions are handled by four of the lighter, more compact 8341A models, with a 7380A subwoofer handling the LFE. Additionally, an 8320A compact two-way nearfield monitor sits atop the 7380A, to provide an upwards frequency extension above 120 Hz. This acts as a checkpoint into the true content of the LFE channel before it is distributed." Ambiguous to me.

Pretty clear to me. Or so I think.

Which part is ambiguous?


Seems to me all 7 ground level are 8351/w371. Then the 4 heights are 8341 with that 7380 to handle their bass.

 

[Spocko]

Wow thank you for telling me!

Seriously thank you for coming on here and talking some sense into me. I have already emailed my dealer. I’m sending all this stuff back and ordering W371s. End game and really it’s already paid for I just didn’t realize it.

I just hate packing and mailing stuff but I’ll figure that out and get this done. Hopefully instead of all this piecemeal sub integrations I’ll just have w371/8361 combo and it will be here by Christmas.

Btw i’m not lacking bass but as former 7360 owner you must remember they clip just trying to play a little hard. That’s the reason I ordered 7380 not because it’s not enough bass. I want enough overall volume and these silly 7360s clip to provide it. So that’s where the 7380 “solution” came from. 7370 is a waste of time given the price difference from it and the 7380.


Also by any chance do you know if the monitor must sit on the W371s? That height is an issue. Also I just assembled the stands for the 8361 yesterday. I wish I just went for this combo from the beginning.

FYI for my home theater use, I have a single 7370 matched to 3x 8351 (L/C/R) + 2x 8350 (SR/SL) for usable bass down to 60Hz via GLM as a "system" then the Trinnov integrates them to the rest of the Genelec speakers (heights, wides, rears, etc.) with the "real" subwoofer JTR Captivator 4000LF (dual 18") to extract bass down to 12Hz.

Any excess bass at the listening position is corrected by the Trinnov.

 

[Sancus]

So I just checked on say a YouTube guy just talking. No music. No bass guitar. I can get them to clip. It’s uncomfortably loud but not outrageously loud.

That's what I would expect. A typical male YouTuber voice is still going to be quite loud from 100-300hz or so, probably. Here's a quick REW peaks(you will clip at peaks) RTA of the first 45ish seconds of HDTVTest's newest video on my system:

Spoiler

He's definitely not a super bassy YouTuber either, but you still see high levels at 100 and 200hz, and since Genelec's capability is maybe 6-8dB lower below 250hz(assuming some boundary reinforcement), that's where the clipping's most likely to happen.

You will see the same on music, even with female lead singers and perceptually little bass. Keep in mind that below 200hz we don't hear bass nearly as loudly as the midrange, so if it sounds like there's little bass, there is probably still quite a bit, and if it sounds like there IS bass, there is probably a *LOT* more than any other frequency range.

I was totally wrong about trying to use extra subs with the W371.

I didn't realize that GLM didn't allow bass managed sub configurations with the W371A, but it's not surprising, as bass management in general isn't very popular in studios compared to home setups They don't need it as much since the rooms are usually designed from the ground up to resolve any bass issues. In a multi-channel system you can(and studios do) use sub(s) for the LFE even with the W371A of course.

Also I think a lot of people don't realize just how powerful the W371A is. It has both a 14" and a 12" driver with 400W/ea of amplification for a total of 800W. That is significantly more driver area than even a high-end 4x8" floorstander.

 

[mkt]

Pretty clear to me. Or so I think.

Which part is ambiguous?


Seems to me all 7 ground level are 8351/w371. Then the 4 heights are 8341 with that 7380 to handle their bass.

LFE .neq. bass management

 

[srrxr71]

FYI for my home theater use, I have a single 7370 matched to 3x 8351 (L/C/R) + 2x 8350 (SR/SL) for usable bass down to 60Hz via GLM as a "system" then the Trinnov integrates them to the rest of the Genelec speakers (heights, wides, rears, etc.) with the "real" subwoofer JTR Captivator 4000LF (dual 18") to extract bass down to 12Hz.

Any excess bass at the listening position is corrected by the Trinnov.

Oh my gosh. Yeah i’m having trouble with these 7360s in a small house. Tiny even. With neighbors 5ft away.



I imagine if I move to a rural farmhouse one day I will need a proper sub like that. And I would need to Otherwise I would need 20 Genelec subs to handle it.

I think still the next level is w371 with trinnov and a proper sub. I hope I won’t need that level for some years.

 

[Spocko]

Oh my gosh. Yeah i’m having trouble with these 7360s in a small house. Tiny even. With neighbors 5ft away.



I imagine if I move to a rural farmhouse one day I will need a proper sub like that. And I would need to Otherwise I would need 20 Genelec subs to handle it.

I think still the next level is w371 with trinnov and a proper sub. I hope I won’t need that level for some years.

Overkill for sure! But flat bass response between 12Hz and 80Hz without adding a bunch of subs everywhere requires creativity LOL

 

[Trell]

There the sub is for LFE so not inconsistent?

Quite possibly that is the of the subwoofer.

Edit: Your quote a few post above shows that is the case.

 

[srrxr71]

That's what I would expect. A typical male YouTuber voice is still going to be quite loud from 100-300hz or so, probably. Here's a quick REW peaks(you will clip at peaks) RTA of the first 45ish seconds of HDTVTest's newest video on my system:

Spoiler

View attachment 242523

He's definitely not a super bassy YouTuber either, but you still see high levels at 100 and 200hz, and since Genelec's capability is maybe 6-8dB lower below 250hz(assuming some boundary reinforcement), that's where the clipping's most likely to happen.

You will see the same on music, even with female lead singers and perceptually little bass. Keep in mind that below 200hz we don't hear bass nearly as loudly as the midrange, so if it sounds like there's little bass, there is probably still quite a bit, and if it sounds like there IS bass, there is probably a *LOT* more than any other frequency range.


I didn't realize that GLM didn't allow bass managed sub configurations with the W371A, but it's not surprising, as bass management in general isn't very popular in studios compared to home setups They don't need it as much since the rooms are usually designed from the ground up to resolve any bass issues. In a multi-channel system you can(and studios do) use sub(s) for the LFE even with the W371A of course.

Also I think a lot of people don't realize just how powerful the W371A is. It has both a 14" and a 12" driver with 400W/ea of amplification for a total of 800W. That is significantly more driver area than even a high-end 4x8" floorstander.

Wow thank you so much for your detailed analysis. Yes that probably is what it is. It’s the bassy voice. You can tell it happens when the guy gets close to the mic and it booms.

Happens on female vocals too for sure. Since i’m not tying it to a bass guitar or kick drum i’m thinking it’s struggling with mids. Probably it’s not.

Even though graphs say “flat” having the 8361 here vs 8341 I can now safely say the 8341 was compressing or limiting those 100–300Hz frequencies.

Voices sound more “bassy”. If you look at a graph you think there is no difference but there is a difference. It even jumps out at you.

Still I would not hesitate that anyone try a 8331 or 8341 just be aware that gateway drugs are dangerous. If your space is small enough they are end game period. If not - be nice to your dealer. That’s all I can say.

 

[srrxr71]

Overkill for sure! But flat bass response between 12Hz and 80Hz without adding a bunch of subs everywhere requires creativity LOL

Hey it’s not overkill if you need output. A lot of people were mistaking my comments about 2x7360 not being enough like i’m a bass fiend or something. If I were I’d have gone JBL a long time ago. (Not putting them down in any way but output with quality is what they do better).

You must have a lot of space. So you NEED output. It’s that simple.

But 12Hz is overkill

 

[srrxr71]

Quite possibly that is the of the subwoofer.

Edit: Your quote a few post above shows that is the case.

But they are mixing music. So do they have LFE channel for music? Not tying to be sarcastic I forgot if the formats have it or not.


I just wonder which height channel they phase aligned it with.

 

[NiagaraPete]

That likely excludes the sub bass. Even at less than one meter, they can run out of juice in that region, IME.

How could you run out of juice? I've only once had my 8050b's red lights come on and I listen to metal.

Amplifier Power​

700 W Bass (Class D) + 150 W Midrange (Class D) + 150 W Treble (Class D)

 

[Pearljam5000]

How could you run out of juice? I've only once had my 8050b's red lights come on and I listen to metal.

Amplifier Power​

700 W Bass (Class D) + 150 W Midrange (Class D) + 150 W Treble (Class D)

I'm confused myself
I barley saw the red lights on my tiny KH120

 

[srrxr71]

How could you run out of juice? I've only once had my 8050b's red lights come on and I listen to metal.

Amplifier Power​

700 W Bass (Class D) + 150 W Midrange (Class D) + 150 W Treble (Class D)

It’s the space. The volume of your space. The listening distance. See the Genelec
monitor selection chart.

Correct Monitors - Genelec.com

A monitor, by definition, observes, checks, controls, warns or keeps a continuous record of something. An audio monitor, studio monitor or monitoring speaker is more than just a good-sounding loudspeaker. It is a device used in the process of recording, mixing or broadcasting audio in any...

www.genelec.com

 

[srrxr71]

I'm confused myself
I barley saw the red lights on my tiny KH120

You won’t understand until it happens to you. Inverse square law is a _____. Logarithmic SPL is also a _____.


So also many of us started with desktop setups. It really makes it easier. You don’t have to worry about all this SPL limit etc.

100% of the quality for so many reasons and less complications.

 

[YSC]

I'm confused myself
I barley saw the red lights on my tiny KH120

Wait, so you finally getting a pair of kh120? Though you lingering on the fight between genelec and Neumann for a few years and bought nothing yet?

Nice to know you finally got a pair on your shortlist and can enjoy

 

[srrxr71]

Basically I’ll put it this way.

Just read the monitor selection guide and use its principles to select whatever brand of monitor.

Don’t try to read graphs and “figure it out”. These engineers ____ on us.