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80hz on my speakers after calibration on Denon AVR? advice

Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
25
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4
#1
Okay! a controversial topic!

can I ask why you guys say to put all crossovers on fronts centre and rear surrounds at 80hz?

After I’ve run Audyssey on my Denon AVR-X2200, it always sets my Fronts, rears and centre at 40hz...
I then always change them to 80hz as the recommendations, then I set my fronts to SMALL as it always sets them to LARGE

im just asking out of curiosity

seeing as I have big floorstanders, would you recommend putting fronts at 70hz? Then centre at 70hz and leave rears at 80hz?
An explanation for a thicko like me so I understand the 80 80 80 recommendation would help, I know it’s THX standard, but what if your watching music Blu Ray discs with DTS-HD sound or similar


here’s the specs on my speakers, if you do want me to change the 80 80 80 thingy?


BK XXLS400 FF SUBWOOFER
Specifications
System Type: Active System with Variable Freq bass filter and 50 Litre Sealed Enclosure
Frequency Response at -3dB:
In your front room -3dB lower than 20Hz !!!
Amplifier Input / Output Impedance: High Level 100K - Low Level 10K
Gain Control Range: 60dB
Drive Unit Impedance: 4 Ohm


BRONZE 50 REAR SURROUNDS
Frequency Response (-6 dB)
62 – 25,000 Hz (Free field)
40 – 30,000 Hz (In room)
Sensitivity (2.83v @ 1m)
85 dB
Nominal Impedance
8 ohms
Minimum Impedance
4.4 ohms
Maximum SPL
107 dBA (pair)
Power Handling (RMS)
80 W
Recommended Amplifier Requirements
20 — 80 W
Bass Alignment
Bass reflex - HiVe II port system
Crossover Frequency
2,500 Hz
Drive Unit Complement
1 x 51/2" C-CAM bass/mid-range driver
1 x 25 mm C-CAM Gold Dome tweeter with UD Waveguide


BRONZE 500 FLOORSTANDERS
System Format
21/2-Way
Frequency Response (-6 dB)
41 – 25,000 Hz (Free field)
32 – 30,000 Hz (In room)
Sensitivity (2.83v @ 1m)
90 dB
Nominal Impedance
8 ohms
Minimum Impedance
4.1 ohms
Maximum SPL
116 dBA (pair)
Power Handling (RMS)
200 W
Recommended Amplifier Requirements
60 — 200 W
Bass Alignment
Bass reflex Dual HiVe II port system
Crossover Frequency
550 Hz
2,700 Hz
Drive Unit Complement
2 x 8" C-CAM midbass driver
1 x 25 mm C-CAM Gold Dome tweeter with UD Waveguide


BRONZE C150 CENTRE SPEAKER
System Format
2-Way
Frequency Response (-6 dB)
83 – 25,000 Hz (Free field)
66 – 30,000 Hz (In room)
Sensitivity (2.83v @ 1m)
88 dB
Nominal Impedance
8 ohms
Minimum Impedance
4.3 ohms
Maximum SPL
109 dBA (each)
Power Handling (RMS)
120 W
Recommended Amplifier Requirements
30 — 120 W
Bass Alignment
Sealed cabinet
Crossover Frequency
2,700 Hz
Drive Unit Complement
2 x 51/2" C-CAM mid-range driver
1 x 25 mm C-CAM Gold Dome tweeter with UD Waveguide
 

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waynel

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#2
Okay! a controversial topic!

can I ask why you guys say to put all crossovers on fronts centre and rear surrounds at 80hz?

After I’ve run Audyssey on my Denon AVR-X2200, it always sets my Fronts, rears and centre at 40hz...
I then always change them to 80hz as the recommendations, then I set my fronts to SMALL as it always sets them to LARGE

im just asking out of curiosity

seeing as I have big floorstanders, would you recommend putting fronts at 70hz? Then centre at 70hz and leave rears at 80hz?
An explanation for a thicko like me so I understand the 80 80 80 recommendation would help, I know it’s THX standard, but what if your watching music Blu Ray discs with DTS-HD sound or similar


here’s the specs on my speakers, if you do want me to change the 80 80 80 thingy?


BK XXLS400 FF SUBWOOFER
Specifications
System Type: Active System with Variable Freq bass filter and 50 Litre Sealed Enclosure
Frequency Response at -3dB:
In your front room -3dB lower than 20Hz !!!
Amplifier Input / Output Impedance: High Level 100K - Low Level 10K
Gain Control Range: 60dB
Drive Unit Impedance: 4 Ohm


BRONZE 50 REAR SURROUNDS
Frequency Response (-6 dB)
62 – 25,000 Hz (Free field)
40 – 30,000 Hz (In room)
Sensitivity (2.83v @ 1m)
85 dB
Nominal Impedance
8 ohms
Minimum Impedance
4.4 ohms
Maximum SPL
107 dBA (pair)
Power Handling (RMS)
80 W
Recommended Amplifier Requirements
20 — 80 W
Bass Alignment
Bass reflex - HiVe II port system
Crossover Frequency
2,500 Hz
Drive Unit Complement
1 x 51/2" C-CAM bass/mid-range driver
1 x 25 mm C-CAM Gold Dome tweeter with UD Waveguide


BRONZE 500 FLOORSTANDERS
System Format
21/2-Way
Frequency Response (-6 dB)
41 – 25,000 Hz (Free field)
32 – 30,000 Hz (In room)
Sensitivity (2.83v @ 1m)
90 dB
Nominal Impedance
8 ohms
Minimum Impedance
4.1 ohms
Maximum SPL
116 dBA (pair)
Power Handling (RMS)
200 W
Recommended Amplifier Requirements
60 — 200 W
Bass Alignment
Bass reflex Dual HiVe II port system
Crossover Frequency
550 Hz
2,700 Hz
Drive Unit Complement
2 x 8" C-CAM midbass driver
1 x 25 mm C-CAM Gold Dome tweeter with UD Waveguide


BRONZE C150 CENTRE SPEAKER
System Format
2-Way
Frequency Response (-6 dB)
83 – 25,000 Hz (Free field)
66 – 30,000 Hz (In room)
Sensitivity (2.83v @ 1m)
88 dB
Nominal Impedance
8 ohms
Minimum Impedance
4.3 ohms
Maximum SPL
109 dBA (each)
Power Handling (RMS)
120 W
Recommended Amplifier Requirements
30 — 120 W
Bass Alignment
Sealed cabinet
Crossover Frequency
2,700 Hz
Drive Unit Complement
2 x 51/2" C-CAM mid-range driver
1 x 25 mm C-CAM Gold Dome tweeter with UD Waveguide
Looks like a nice setup, my recommendation is to use at least 80hz and take the load off your main speakers, I use 80Hz for my Revel Salon 2s with great results and 100hz for my center and surrounds. If I were you I would also add a second sub.
 
OP
WaynesterUK
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Messages
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Thread Starter #3
Looks like a nice setup, my recommendation is to use at least 80hz and take the load off your main speakers, I use 80Hz for my Revel Salon 2s with great results and 100hz for my center and surrounds. If I were you I would also add a second sub.
Hi Wayne! 2 Wayne’s !

I’m happy with 1 sub, I’m getting another yes.. but not at the moment, next upgrade is trying to find a Denon AVR-X4500 in Silver to replace my current AVR-X2200, it’s also difficult because I live in a Ground floor flat.. so 2 subs would get me thrown out the place
 

yourmando

Active Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
121
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150
#4
Hi Wayne! 2 Wayne’s !

I’m happy with 1 sub, I’m getting another yes.. but not at the moment, next upgrade is trying to find a Denon AVR-X4500 in Silver to replace my current AVR-X2200, it’s also difficult because I live in a Ground floor flat.. so 2 subs would get me thrown out the place
If 1 subwoofer didn’t get you thrown out, then 2 won’t either! The improvement would be to even out your frequency response and address room modes, through the entire listening window (couch). The total volume would be the same as before of course, so each would be playing at a lower level than 1 subwoofer alone.

You’d need to get a mini DSP or similar, though, because Audyssey doesn’t support joint optimization of multiple subwoofers.
 
OP
WaynesterUK
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Messages
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Thread Starter #5
If 1 subwoofer didn’t get you thrown out, then 2 won’t either! The improvement would be to even out your frequency response and address room modes, through the entire listening window (couch). The total volume would be the same as before of course, so each would be playing at a lower level than 1 subwoofer alone.

You’d need to get a mini DSP or similar, though, because Audyssey doesn’t support joint optimization of multiple subwoofers.
thanks for the advice

if I was to get another identical sub for my right side, I would just sat it at exactly the same as the left one? Would i get any issues or phasing or delays? And can my old 2015 Denon AVR-X2200 let me have 2 subs?

I’m not very technical and I’m still learning about this stuff ☺️
 

waynel

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
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Messages
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#6
thanks for the advice

if I was to get another identical sub for my right side, I would just sat it at exactly the same as the left one? Would i get any issues or phasing or delays? And can my old 2015 Denon AVR-X2200 let me have 2 subs?

I’m not very technical and I’m still learning about this stuff ☺️
I would just get an identical one and run them in mono with the same gain and phase (and all setting). Symmetrical sub layout is not important. Audessy will do a good enough job calibrating if you don't want to get into miniDSPs . When getting a new Denon , I recommend choosing one with XT32 (3600, 3700, 4500, etc.)
 
OP
WaynesterUK
Joined
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Messages
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Thread Starter #7
I would just get an identical one and run them in mono with the same gain and phase (and all setting). Symmetrical sub layout is not important. Audessy will do a good enough job calibrating if you don't want to get into miniDSPs . When getting a new Denon , I recommend choosing one with XT32 (3600, 3700, 4500, etc.)
Yep! Definitely getting a 4500 model!

not getting into DSP’s! Far too technical for me
 

yourmando

Active Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
121
Likes
150
#8
thanks for the advice

if I was to get another identical sub for my right side, I would just sat it at exactly the same as the left one? Would i get any issues or phasing or delays? And can my old 2015 Denon AVR-X2200 let me have 2 subs?

I’m not very technical and I’m still learning about this stuff ☺️
Here's an outline.

1. Even if your AVR has 2 subwoofer outputs, you want to only use 1 output so that Audyssey thinks there's only 1 subwoofer. Your 2 subwoofers will be acting as 1. This is because Audyssey doesn't properly optimize 2 or more subwoofers properly such that it results in a good combined result. It doesn't even attempt this--it's just a feature it does not have.

2. The 1 subwoofer AVR output would go into the mindDSP HD. 2 (or up to 4) outputs from the miniDSP would go to each sub. Basically, you'd go through an interactive process of optimizing with changes to phase, etc & measuring each step to confirmed that the total summed subwoofer response is improved.

If you have 2 AVR subwoofer outputs, why not just let Audyssey do this for you? Because it's doesn't try. Even if you get each subwoofer optimized perfectly--2 subwoofers optimized separately doesn't at all optimize how they sounds together working as a unit. This is because, when played together, there are additional constructive & destructive interference patterns that alter the frequency response as they interact with each other. So 2 individually optimize subs can actually sound bad together, with new nulls and peaks.

This video lays out step by step how to do this:


There are also more automated methods to jointly optimize subwoofers, such as Dirac Live Bass Control, but you can get just as good results the "manual" way above with a couple of hours of tweaking and measuring.
 

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