802 D3 vs Revel Salon 2

[DSJR]

You could be right - but what put me off is the tendency in some models for the tweeter signals to 'detach' from the rest of the peaker if you stook up and above the speaker. Maybe in a conventional box this aspec is blurred a bit? In the B&W's with separate tweeter pods, I find it alarming and unsettling.

Those who've heard them at shows - were you standing or sitting more on axis with them?

 

[MarcT]

You could be right - but what put me off is the tendency in some models for the tweeter signals to 'detach' from the rest of the peaker if you stook up and above the speaker. Maybe in a conventional box this aspec is blurred a bit? In the B&W's with separate tweeter pods, I find it alarming and unsettling.

Those who've heard them at shows - were you standing or sitting more on axis with them?

I was standing when I heard them, which may have made me more susceptible to picking up on the highs bouncing off the ceiling.

 

[LTig]

I auditioned the 800D3 2 years ago at my local dealer and the demo man played them very loud. Piano was so hot I and an another guy covered our ears.

 

[preload]

One other possibility is that presence region dip that B&W seems to strive for. There's another member here @preload who owns the 802D3 and Genelec 8351b(textbook neutral speaker), and he prefers the B&W. For him, it seems to be related to that presence dip, as he EQs that in to the 8351s and prefers what it does there. After reading his post, I tried it myself(I also own the 8351s). I actually thought I liked it at first, but after a few days, something was missing, and turning it off instantly made it clear that I preferred the more neutral presence region. It was different enough though where I could see how someone with different preference could enjoy it.

Thanks for remembering me. To be clear, it's the 802D1, and I prefer the 802D1's in the larger room that they live in compared to 8351B's in a very small office room. When EQ'ing the 8351B's to resemble the response of the 802D1, I generally prefer this to the "neutral" curve generated by GLM. That being said, by serendipity, I recently found a location in my Genelec room (away from the LMP) that sounds pretty good without the B&W's presence dip. So I captured a MMM measurement of that, and I re-EQ'd my MLP to match, and now this is my preferred listening curve (i.e. no presence dip) on MOST, but NOT ALL tracks. Thing is, my Genelec room is horrible (untreated and tiny), whereas the B&W room is a pretty good size.

Interesting that you tried out the presence dip, thanks for sharing your observations.

 

[MZKM]

I am in favor of B&W approach to make the cabinet inert so the cabinet does not emit sounds which can middy the clarity.

….that pretty much is the approach of every speaker company.

John Aktinson sadly couldn’t measure cabinet vibrations for the B&W, but said this:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-wilkins-802-d3-diamond-loudspeaker-measurements

My accelerometer was out of action when I had the B&W speaker in-house for measurement. However, listening to the woofer enclosure with a stethoscope while I drove the 802 D3 with a sinewave generator revealed the presence of low-level modes at 380 and 415Hz.

He did for the Revel though:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-ultima-salon2-loudspeaker-measurements

investigating the panels' vibrational behavior with a plastic-tape accelerometer uncovered very little untoward going on. The only mode I found…was high enough in frequency and low enough in level to have no subjective consequences.

I listened to the 802 D3. I didn’t find it bright (that said, it wasn‘t playing music with a lot of high frequency notes and it was playing music I wasn’t familiar with), but I has a neutral impression. I liked the bass but that was about it. I thought it has some layering, but that may have been “fake” due to the narrow dispersion around 2kHz.

I have not heard any Revel speaker.

I think some people are ignoring a huge aspect in speaker comparing, sensitivity; here is what John Atkinson got for both:

B&W: 91dB
Revel: 86.4dB

Over 4dB of difference. To put that into perspective, if a 100W amp was used, the Revel would sound as if it was only on a 40W amp compared to the B&W.

That could easily result in the B&W sounding more life-like.

 

[blueone]

I heard the 803 and the F208 and while the 208 seemed to me like the more "correct" speaker, I thought it was also unexciting. I'd rather have a speaker with poorer measurements but some wow factor, provided the wow factor hits the stuff I listen to.

I know so many people who agree with you.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Fun thread.

 

[DonH56]

Fun thread.

Kal, Kal, Kal... Circumspect as always.

 

[Pearljam5000]

D4 version is about to be released in June

 

[Cadguy]

B&W 802 D3 vs Monitor Audio Platinum 500 ll vs Dynaudio Confidence 30. (I like the Dynaudio 30). Is there anyone here who can translate what their final summary is?

 

[polmuaddib]

This is moving mic measurement of their high end center speaker B&W HTM2 D2 in my room. This measurement was not calibrated and my room is not treated.
The speaker is 60cm from the front wall and situated on a sideboard (not on dedicated stand).
Make of this measurement what you will. Most of the irregularities is my room, I imagine, but when you look at the area above 1 khz, there are only slight deviations up and down. But not flat, alas.
Subjectively, I don't find it too bright, there is good intelligibility in movies... but the mids are not perfect for me. Again, might be my room.
I am selling the speaker because my fronts are not B&W anymore.

 

[preload]

You have a +15dB peak at 70Hz and you think it "might" be your room??

 

[MarcT]

I know that's a sizable center speaker, but I'm confused, in that it appears to have more output at 20-30 Hz than it does at higher frequencies. Surely, it can't play that loud, that low.

 

[polmuaddib]

No it doesn't play that low. With MMM I don't get realistic measurements below 50 hz. This is sweep, single point.

Yeah, though, there is that elevated 10khz here. I know that below 1khz it's mostly my room and not the speaker, but I wasn't refering to that area.

 

[MarcT]

No it doesn't play that low. With MMM I don't get realistic measurements below 50 hz. This is sweep, single point. View attachment 127859
Yeah, though, there is that elevated 10khz here. I know that below 1khz it's mostly my room and not the speaker, but I wasn't refering to that area.

Seems like that boost at 60-100 Hz would be bad for dialog intelligibility, in that it would be too distracting.

 

[MarcT]

B&W 802 D3 vs Monitor Audio Platinum 500 ll vs Dynaudio Confidence 30. (I like the Dynaudio 30). Is there anyone here who can translate what their final summary is?

Nice! I'll take a set of each.

 

[polmuaddib]

I agree, but that measurement is without eq. I normally listen to it through Audyssey and crossed at 40hz to subs. I suppose that Audyssey brings that peak down.
I don't measure through AVR because it's not easy to connect audio interface to it. Not impossible, just complicated..

 

[Frgirard]

No it doesn't play that low. With MMM I don't get realistic measurements below 50 hz. This is sweep, single point. View attachment 127859
Yeah, though, there is that elevated 10khz here. I know that below 1khz it's mostly my room and not the speaker, but I wasn't refering to that area.

Did you measured the speakers in the same time?

 

[LTig]

You have a +15dB peak at 70Hz and you think it "might" be your room??

Yes, looks realistic to me. Maybe not the full 15 dB are room only. If you've never measured a room this comes as a surprise.

 

[Frgirard]

Yes, looks realistic to me. Maybe not the full 15 dB are room only. If you've never measured a room this comes as a surprise.

If he measures the two speakers in the same time, 15 dB is possible.
And doesn't mean nothing on the speakers.