801 Repair Guidance Thread

[DSJR]

My mastering engineer pal used 801's in his room driven by a large HH (V800?) MOS-FET amp. He had to turn the stands they had on their sides to lift the speakers so the 'module' could be seen over the meter bridge and his colleagues did the same and I have to say I wasn't hugely impressed with the sound they gave in this airless room from master grade material. Some years on, B&W updated them to the M801 version and he was able to get his 'old' monitors signed out to him (he still has them thirty years or so on in his AV system) and in his home, they sounded great I remember. His version lacked the protection buttons on the front edge.

P.S. I remember at work in 1981 or so, we had a Quatre (QMI) Gain cell power amp in and it drove the 801's, KEF 105's and also 3 ohm or so Linn Isobariks to phenomonal levels, this unfettered power delivery something I'd not really heard before and showing what speakers like this really could do. Not sure any of these Gain Cell amps have survived (apparently they went into terminal melt down after a few years and maybe took the speakers connected to them as well?).

 

[JaMmy]

I’ve now got a fully working tri-amped set up for the B&W 801s. I’ve measured the freq response with a Umik and REW and it looks pretty flat although both speakers drop off after about 15khz. This is of no concern to me as my ears fall off at about 12. I can’t imagine going back to passive XOs as the (subjective) improvement is colossal. This could be pure placebo, given the effort invested in building six amps two power supplies and two XOs but I doubt it. My partner is a native German speaker and I listen to a lot of Wagner. She commented that she can now hear the words that they’re singing without the libretto.

However I now have a really stupid Q to ask, rooted in my relative electronic ignorance (Higher physics was 50 years ago now). I have a pair of stacked Quad ESLs that are lovely but would sound better bi-amped with the woofers of the 801s. I could just build another pair of amps and XO, but the lazy boy in me wonders if there would be a safe way to connect the high and mid pass amps from the tri-amp into one speaker?

 

[ferrousmike]

Hi, request for guidance, appreciated. Ran across this site while searching for parts (tweeter), seems like a great place to ask.

Just picked up a pair of B&W 801's Series 80 from a thrift shop. It's funny, my wife goes to these places all the time and after hearing these https://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers...-speaker-each-rosenut/6476397.p?skuId=6476397 I told her to look for any deals on speakers which have B&W on the front (HA!). 1 week later she shoots me a text with a picture of some pretty scratched/banged up, but still functioning, B&W's. Imagine that? Karma forced me to buy these. Headed over and grabbed them for what I thought was going to be a steal for $350 for the pair, but was double that Anyway, I thought they were pretty cool and I could at least own the name, w/o the $40k charge for the ones I really want! But I digress...

1) How do I determine the model year? Shows serial #: 008686
It looks just like the one this great gent is standing next to (i.e., no buttons on the top, B&W emblem - with a red led? - on the bottom front):

2) The tweeter on one of them isn't working. Looks like the braided wire on one side has detached. Touching the wire gently to the post from which it detached doesn't yield any sound But looks like there may be black residue (perhaps from the dome being coated?) on that braided cable. Should I just go ahead and try to solder it back on and hope for the best (I have experience soldering/DIY stuff). You can see it was banged up a bit but the dome is still OK, hence the grill is missing.

3) The color is somewhat of a natural wood, any idea what it is/was? I'd like to refinish them as close to original as possible, assuming I can restore the tweeter.

4) From what I read my https://www.bestbuy.com/site/yamaha...i-and-musiccast-black/6422262.p?skuId=6422262 won't really power these well. I'll decide if I want to upgrade to more power if I can get these working (I just bought the receiver a few months ago).

Even w/o the tweeter working on one, you can tell these sounds very nice. I might buy a better condition pair if I can't work with these.

APPRECIATED!

 

[sergeauckland]

Hi, request for guidance, appreciated. Ran across this site while searching for parts (tweeter), seems like a great place to ask.

Just picked up a pair of B&W 801's Series 80 from a thrift shop. It's funny, my wife goes to these places all the time and after hearing these https://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers...-speaker-each-rosenut/6476397.p?skuId=6476397 I told her to look for any deals on speakers which have B&W on the front (HA!). 1 week later she shoots me a text with a picture of some pretty scratched/banged up, but still functioning, B&W's. Imagine that? Karma forced me to buy these. Headed over and grabbed them for what I thought was going to be a steal for $350 for the pair, but was double that Anyway, I thought they were pretty cool and I could at least own the name, w/o the $40k charge for the ones I really want! But I digress...

1) How do I determine the model year? Shows serial #: 008686
It looks just like the one this great gent is standing next to (i.e., no buttons on the top, B&W emblem - with a red led? - on the bottom front):
View attachment 249287

2) The tweeter on one of them isn't working. Looks like the braided wire on one side has detached. Touching the wire gently to the post from which it detached doesn't yield any sound But looks like there may be black residue (perhaps from the dome being coated?) on that braided cable. Should I just go ahead and try to solder it back on and hope for the best (I have experience soldering/DIY stuff). You can see it was banged up a bit but the dome is still OK, hence the grill is missing.

3) The color is somewhat of a natural wood, any idea what it is/was? I'd like to refinish them as close to original as possible, assuming I can restore the tweeter.

4) From what I read my https://www.bestbuy.com/site/yamaha...i-and-musiccast-black/6422262.p?skuId=6422262 won't really power these well. I'll decide if I want to upgrade to more power if I can get these working (I just bought the receiver a few months ago).

Even w/o the tweeter working on one, you can tell these sounds very nice. I might buy a better condition pair if I can't work with these.

APPRECIATED!

Hi Mike,

Nice find.
The ones in the picture, look like the 801F, which are the second series. The first series (model 80) had a small panel for the protection electronics at the top-right of the bass box. The ones in the picture have what B&W called APOC which was powered from the audio signal itself, and has a small red LED in the B&W badge at the bottom of the front panel.

The 801F had a head unit made of Fibrecrete, which is a lightweight concrete, rather than the plywood of the Model 80. After the 801F, B&W went to Matrix construction and the bass was reflex loaded. The Model 80 and 801F were both sealed bass. Year for the 801F will be around 1986. If you take the bass unit out, there should be a date stamp inside the cabinet. As to taking the bass unit out (careful, it's heavy) it's a very good idea to take it out and rotate it 180° and put it back, This evens out the slight sag that will have developed on the suspension after all these years.

The standard wood finishes were teak or walnut. Walnut was the more common, black ash or rosewood were options, presumably at higher price.

As to fixing the tweeter, try soldering the wire, you can't make it worse than it is.

Finally, as to power, when I first got mine, I tried them with my Yamaha CR1000 receiver, which went far louder than I would ever want to use them without clipping, on some 75watts/ch. A decent 100 watt/pc amplifier will do fine in domestic use.

S.

 

[ferrousmike]

Will try to solder tomorrow, thank you very much!

 

[ferrousmike]

Will try to solder tomorrow, thank you very much!

Ok so soldering that wire was nerve wracking . It wasn’t a braided wire but the typical coil wire, thin copper but with an insulating covering. More rubbery than typical plastic sheathing. Was able to strip some off after heating it up very little with soldering iron. So sketchy! The wire would not stay attached to the post with solder. Eventually I got a blob of solder on top of the copper so it’s mostly held in place by pressure I think? But it’s working! These speakers sound amazing! Can’t believe how durable they are as well after decades. What a diff from my diy modded Pioneer Andrew Jones towers. Last foray I had into decent speakers wee the New Large Advents I had in 1980! Funny that these are from same era and I love them

Hoping the tweeter keeps working and calling this a win! Going to refinish the cabs, wife thinks they are walnut! Given serial number, would B&W be able to tell me much about the original config?

 

[sergeauckland]

Ok so soldering that wire was nerve wracking . It wasn’t a braided wire but the typical coil wire, thin copper but with an insulating covering. More rubbery than typical plastic sheathing. Was able to strip some off after heating it up very little with soldering iron. So sketchy! The wire would not stay attached to the post with solder. Eventually I got a blob of solder on top of the copper so it’s mostly held in place by pressure I think? But it’s working! These speakers sound amazing! Can’t believe how durable they are as well after decades. What a diff from my diy modded Pioneer Andrew Jones towers. Last foray I had into decent speakers wee the New Large Advents I had in 1980! Funny that these are from same era and I love them

Hoping the tweeter keeps working and calling this a win! Going to refinish the cabs, wife thinks they are walnut! Given serial number, would B&W be able to tell me much about the original config?

Unlikely, as the B&W company that made those is very different from the B&W company today. Worth a try though.

As far as dates go, mine have S/No 6143, and are of 1986 manufacture. Yours are probably a bit later from your serial Nos, but the 801M came out in 1987 as far as I'm aware, so I would expect yours to be late '86. As mentioned above, if you take the bass unit out to turn it round, there should be a date stamp inside the bass bin, although you may have to move some of the stuffing to see it.

As to specifications, you can get the full service information including part numbers and circuit diagrams on-line. If you have problems, PM me with your email address and I can reply with PDFs attached.

S.

 

[Tip]

Unlikely, as the B&W company that made those is very different from the B&W company today. Worth a try though.

As far as dates go, mine have S/No 6143, and are of 1986 manufacture. Yours are probably a bit later from your serial Nos, but the 801M came out in 1987 as far as I'm aware, so I would expect yours to be late '86. As mentioned above, if you take the bass unit out to turn it round, there should be a date stamp inside the bass bin, although you may have to move some of the stuffing to see it.

As to specifications, you can get the full service information including part numbers and circuit diagrams on-line. If you have problems, PM me with your email address and I can reply with PDFs attached.

S.

My 801M Series 2 (serial numbers 13 & 14) have a date of October 1987, but I believe the model wasn't announced until 1988 (mine originally belonged to the Midwest US sales rep).

@ferrousmike: I bought the "Matrix 801 L/E Upgrade Kit" 30 years ago (updated crossovers and new tweeters) and still have the original crossovers and tweeters. But from the description of your tweeter's wiring harness, my tweeter appears to be different -- wiring not braided and has a 2-wire connector. Is there a part number on yours?

 

[ferrousmike]

My 801M Series 2 (serial numbers 13 & 14) have a date of October 1987, but I believe the model wasn't announced until 1988 (mine originally belonged to the Midwest US sales rep).

@ferrousmike: I bought the "Matrix 801 L/E Upgrade Kit" 30 years ago (updated crossovers and new tweeters) and still have the original crossovers and tweeters. But from the description of your tweeter's wiring harness, my tweeter appears to be different -- wiring not braided and has a 2-wire connector. Is there a part number on yours?

Hi! Here’s a pic of the back and front of the tweeter. That coil wire end only looked braided to me due to lack of glasses and low light. The black insulation fooled me ;-)

 

[Tip]

Hi! Here’s a pic of the back and front of the tweeter. That coil wire end only looked braided to me due to lack of glasses and low light. The black insulation fooled me ;-)

Your 801F and my 801M tweeters are more different than I expected for being only a couple of years apart. From the construction, wiring, and part ID (TXS vs. TMS), it appears that they each were made for their respective models.

Best Regards,
Tip

 

[Rick Sykora]

One of my favorite showroom listening memories were these 801s. They were beyond my budget at the time. Did not know that it is a sealed design. Recall it was rather massive though. A large, sealed woofer usually needs some volume to go low.

Hope you can restore them to their original glory and enjoy them as much as I did!

Rick

 

[ferrousmike]

As far as dates go, mine have S/No 6143, and are of 1986 manufacture. Yours are probably a bit later from your serial Nos, but the 801M came out in 1987 as far as I'm aware, so I would expect yours to be late '86. As mentioned above, if you take the bass unit out to turn it round, there should be a date stamp inside the bass bin, although you may have to move some of the stuffing to see it.

Interestingly mine have a date of 1985 on the crossover. At least on one speaker, and on both PCBs, lower cabinet and mid tweeter unit.

Hmmmmm. Given our serials, Odd right?

As to specifications, you can get the full service information including part numbers and circuit diagrams on-line. If you have problems, PM me with your email address and I can reply with PDFs

Yes please! Incoming

 

[ferrousmike]

Your 801F and my 801M tweeters are more different than I expected for being only a couple of years apart. From the construction, wiring, and part ID (TXS vs. TMS), it appears that they each were made for their respective models.

View attachment 249865
View attachment 249866

Best Regards,
Tip

I will probably replace them if I get crossover back together and it doesn’t sound as well as I had hoped.

What do folks use for sound measurements without spending hundreds?

 

[feynman]

I am long overdue for a proper thank you to everyone who who helped me restore the old 801s to greatness.

First and by far the most important, @sergeauckland …without exaggeration, none of this would have happened without his guidance. He taught me to solder, to analyze schematics, to source modern replacements for vintage components, and he made me believe I could do this. His feedback and instructions were thoughtful and numerous, even weeks into this when I’m sure he was long tired of me. Thank you, sincerely, for helping me get through this.

Second, Jerry at Falcon Acoustics. I had some difficulty finding perfect replacements for most of the capacitors in the U.S., and also didn’t know what I was doing. Serge pointed me to Jerry, who patiently helped me understand what I needed, and why I needed them, and shipped everything immediately once we had it all figured out.

Between Serge and Jerry, I felt confident that I understood how these speakers worked and what they needed.

Third, Bill Legall of Millersound. The tweeters were both damaged beyond my capabilities, and Bill was recommended to me as an expert in the field. He restored them perfectly, and his wife even sourced matching brown paint and touched them up for me.

Fourth, the Internet. Being able to find all of the original B&W schematics, along with the generational updates and notes, was incredible. I ended up knowing more about these speakers than I have ever known about anything I’ve owned. The crossover circuit boards were easy to work on with plenty of space between components, and I even came to enjoy the smell of Rockwool.

Finally, @amper42, for selling them to me in the first place. They are finally done, and I love them.

And of course, ASR, for bringing all of this together.

They turned out better than I would have expected, and they sound excellent. They calibrated well, and cover my listening area with pleasant sound. They seem to suffer a little with vertical dispersion, but this is about the only fault I can observe. In my seated position, it’s near-perfect. Dirac improved the situation even further. I’m running an SHD and a Buckeye NC502, and I’m thoroughly pleased. The amp confirmed that I correctly repaired the overload protection (the sudden silence and little red lights told me I was playing perhaps a lot too loudly), without breaking a sweat.

I’ve been listening to more music than ever, and these speakers will live to see another few decades.

I can’t thank Serge enough. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

-mitch


I've attached a not-great photo, but I don’t have very good light today. They live again. They also look cool, which is important in sound reproduction.

 

[Doodski]

They are finally done, and I love them.

I sold the ~1985 Matrix 801 when they where new and I think they sounded fabulous. I did damage a woofer by pushing the woofers beyond their excursion limits and damaged the voice coil former but it was covered under warranty at the time. Fantastic speakers!

 

[ferrousmike]

I am long overdue for a proper thank you to everyone who who helped me restore the old 801s to greatness.

First and by far the most important, @sergeauckland …without exaggeration, none of this would have happened without his guidance. He taught me to solder, to analyze schematics, to source modern replacements for vintage components, and he made me believe I could do this. His feedback and instructions were thoughtful and numerous, even weeks into this when I’m sure he was long tired of me. Thank you, sincerely, for helping me get through this.

Second, Jerry at Falcon Acoustics. I had some difficulty finding perfect replacements for most of the capacitors in the U.S., and also didn’t know what I was doing. Serge pointed me to Jerry, who patiently helped me understand what I needed, and why I needed them, and shipped everything immediately once we had it all figured out.

Between Serge and Jerry, I felt confident that I understood how these speakers worked and what they needed.

Third, Bill Legall of Millersound. The tweeters were both damaged beyond my capabilities, and Bill was recommended to me as an expert in the field. He restored them perfectly, and his wife even sourced matching brown paint and touched them up for me.

Fourth, the Internet. Being able to find all of the original B&W schematics, along with the generational updates and notes, was incredible. I ended up knowing more about these speakers than I have ever known about anything I’ve owned. The crossover circuit boards were easy to work on with plenty of space between components, and I even came to enjoy the smell of Rockwool.

Finally, @amper42, for selling them to me in the first place. They are finally done, and I love them.

And of course, ASR, for bringing all of this together.

They turned out better than I would have expected, and they sound excellent. They calibrated well, and cover my listening area with pleasant sound. They seem to suffer a little with vertical dispersion, but this is about the only fault I can observe. In my seated position, it’s near-perfect. Dirac improved the situation even further. I’m running an SHD and a Buckeye NC502, and I’m thoroughly pleased. The amp confirmed that I correctly repaired the overload protection (the sudden silence and little red lights told me I was playing perhaps a lot too loudly), without breaking a sweat.

I’ve been listening to more music than ever, and these speakers will live to see another few decades.

I can’t thank Serge enough. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

-mitch


I've attached a not-great photo, but I don’t have very good light today. They live again. They also look cool, which is important in sound reproduction.

Could you please share the contact info for Jerry? Appreciated, having a touch time sourcing parts as well for my 1985 version.

 

[feynman]

I just contacted him through their primary sales email. I gather it's a small operation.

[email protected]

Falcon Acoustics | The Leading DIY Speaker Parts and Kit Supplier since 1972

UK's Largest Drive Unit Store. INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING. Falcon speakers, KEF B110, T27, B139 replacements, LS3/5a & Q7 systems, kits & parts. SEAS, Scanspeak, Audax, Morel, Accuton

www.falconacoustics.co.uk

Good luck.

 

[serlv]

I have a set of these and love them. The crossovers were rebuilt by the previous owner. My serial #s are 599 and 600 so these babies are friggin' old. This is just a quote so don't shoot me, but this guy who had bought a set of much more modern 802D's, said of the newly refreshed 801's, after doing the XOs " these may sound better, now, than my 802's". I love the sound I get from them. My only wish, in regards to them is that they would go "lower".

Scott

 

[Doodski]

I have a set of these and love them. The crossovers were rebuilt by the previous owner. My serial #s are 599 and 600 so these babies are friggin' old. This is just a quote so don't shoot me, but this guy who had bought a set of much more modern 802D's, said of the newly refreshed 801's, after doing the XOs " these may sound better, now, than my 802's". I love the sound I get from them. My only wish, in regards to them is that they would go "lower".

Scott

I had the 801s, Infinity Kappa Series and the KEF Reference Series in a sound room for some years to use and compare. The Kappas if adjusted could produce great bass and highs, the 801s had very tight deep bass and the woofer was prone to bottoming the voice coil if too much power and bass was applied (So be careful.) and the KEF Reference Series was the most neutral, the least demanding of the amps and the most versatile of the lot. Between them I would love any one of them. The 801 Matrix is a great speaker and would surprise anybody used to listening to todays newer technology speakers.