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7hz Salnotes Zero - the "other" Zero

ApprehensiveFox

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I find these 7hz zero's really wonderful. I've also got the more expensive Thieaudio Oracle widely regarded as one of the most neutrally balanced IEMs, and these zero's come exceptionally close to that. The only thing the Oracles win out on is upper extension and quantity of the highest harmonics. And the EST drivers do some funny stuff with the stereo field in the high frequencies, giving you that out of the head effect. But I'd say the latter is more a preference thing than anything. Oh yeah and these zero's slap! They got some nice dynamics going. Drums punch through the mix and never get drown out. I'm guessing that has to do with a tight phase coherence. I'll definitely be keeping these around.
 

ApprehensiveFox

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'Universally praised' means nothing, especially when it comes to pretty kilobuck IEMs with a regal name and hyperbolic reviews thereof buttering up that cognitive bias. The all-time highest rated IEM, headphone in general, and piece of audio equipment at all by users on Head-Fi is the Noble Audio Kaiser 10. Here's its frequency response:

I find it quite comical how you call out someone on praising something, and immediately start praising some other set. LOL
 

Matias

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Below the Zero compared to the Dusk in relation to the Harman target, from the tuner's database (Crin). Consistent!

zero.jpg
 
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Dazerdoreal

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Oratory1990 updated his EQ database, now including the 7hz Zero.

Personally I dont prefer the Harman target over the stock tuning (which is, again, crazy for its price), but others might.
 

Matias

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Yes, I would never add sub-bass and treble to this tuning. IMO it is already perfect as it is!
 

cbracer

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I like mine. I love it for the cost. Don't care for look and sound, but I'm not picking it based on that. I kept it and returned the Truthear x Crinacle Zero (too much upper base), along with the new model the Truthear Hexa (not enough base). I just wish I could afford to try the Blessing 2 Dusk and see what's that's like.
 

SuicideSquid

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Woosh. I find it quite comical how you completely missed the point of my post. I'm not praising the other set, quite the opposite. Just look at its frequency response. LOL.
I can't actually figure out what point you're trying to make in this thread. Seems like you're just being confrontational for the sake of it.
 

Matias

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I like mine. I love it for the cost. Don't care for look and sound, but I'm not picking it based on that. I kept it and returned the Truthear x Crinacle Zero (too much upper base), along with the new model the Truthear Hexa (not enough base). I just wish I could afford to try the Blessing 2 Dusk and see what's that's like.
As you can see from Crin's measurements above, the Dusk has almost same tonality as the Zero. IMO perfect.

But physically a lot larger and heavier, fancier materials, and of course more refined and resolving.
 
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Dazerdoreal

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Yes, I would never add sub-bass and treble to this tuning. IMO it is already perfect as it is!
Indeed. But while it really is crazy good, I found a detail to nitpick about by now.
The high treble feels a bit one-note-ish because of the dominant 13,5k area.

And so I finally made an EQ preset:

Preamp: -0.7 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 850 Hz Gain 0.5 dB Q 1.000
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 3200 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 2.000
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 10500 Hz Gain 1.0 dB Q 6.000
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 13500 Hz Gain -2.0 dB Q 3.000
 

GaryH

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I can't actually figure out what point you're trying to make in this thread. Seems like you're just being confrontational for the sake of it.
Not sure what's so hard to understand. Someone implied the 7Hz Zero's sound quality can be judged by its closeness to the response of the 'reference tuning' of the Thieaudio Monarch II due to the latter being 'universally praised'. I then pointed out that 'universal praise' does not necessarily mean good sound quality with a counter-example: the Noble Audio Kaiser 10, which have 'universal praise' (being the highest user-rated headphone of all time on Head-Fi), yet have a terrible frequency response (which I linked to). And I further pointed out the similarities between the Monarch II and Kaiser 10, namely the 'regal' names, pretty faceplates, and ridiculously extortionate $1000 price tags, all of which are highly likely candidates for skewing sound judgements via cognitive bias.
 
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nyxnyxnyx

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I also love the 7Hz Salnotes Zero!

Pros: price, incredible flawless tuning, good quality detachable cable, comfortable and lightweight chassis, nice plate design.

Cons: all plastic chassis, no mic option, cheesy colored tips.

I would happily have paid say +5 usd and get a metal chassis, mic in the cable and black tips. Call it 7Hz Salnotes Zero+ and keep all the positives.
I used to work part time in a IEMs brand (just briefly) and from my experience it's much harder and less consistent to work with metal chassis unless the head engineer really knows what to do and the company has sufficient equipment. Besides I think for the price it is aimed to look cheaper than their more expensive products, to not sabotage their own stuff.
 

DanTheMan

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I owned this thing for about 10 minutes. I have to admit I thought it was horrible sounding. Sent it back right away. Compared to my calibrated home theater it's extremely bright. My ADAMs are actually thought of as brighter monitors and they are not EQed above SBIR zone. These are dramatically brighter than the ADAMs. I should have measured it and then EQed it to be more listenable, but I don't see the point--I already have IEMs that I can EQ. More power to you guys who can handle this level of treble/balance of sound. I admire your fortitude. To the people who actually like these.... well perhaps your pinna gain is naturally much higher than mine.
 

SuicideSquid

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Not sure what's so hard to understand. Someone implied the 7Hz Zero's sound quality can be judged by its closeness to the response of the 'reference tuning' of the Thieaudio Monarch II due to the latter being 'universally praised'. I then pointed out that 'universal praise' does not necessarily mean good sound quality with a counter-example: the Noble Audio Kaiser 10, which have 'universal praise' (being the highest user-rated headphone of all time on Head-Fi), yet have a terrible frequency response (which I linked to). And I further pointed out the similarities between the Monarch II and Kaiser 10, namely the 'regal' names, pretty faceplates, and ridiculously extortionate $1000 price tags, all of which are highly likely candidates for skewing sound judgements via cognitive bias.
So you're pedantically splitting hairs in a way no one asked for and contributes nothing to the discussion or understanding of the issue.

Got it.
 

GaryH

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Ha, your two posts in this thread have been entirely an expression of you being rubbed the wrong way for some reason, with zero content about the 7Hz Zero (or even anything related to audio) at all. I however have pointed out the poor build quality of this IEM, posted the results of research from an esteemed acoustic scientist that IEM sound quality has no correlation with price, and given a counterexample with measurements to the mistaken belief that 'universal praise' in sighted listening prone to cognitive bias necessarily means good sound quality, both of which are myths pervasive in this hobby that I'm cautioning against.
 
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Dazerdoreal

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Ha, your two posts in this thread have been entirely an expression of you being rubbed the wrong way for some reason, with zero content about the 7Hz Zero (or even anything related to audio) at all. I however have pointed out the poor build quality of this IEM, posted the results of research from an esteemed acoustic scientist that IEM sound quality has no correlation with price, and given a counterexample with measurements to the mistaken belief that 'universal praise' in sighted listening prone to cognitive bias necessarily means good sound quality, both of which are myths pervasive in this hobby that I'm cautioning against.
Just because there might be no correlation, it does not mean that a well-informed individual is not interested in paying less for better audio quality (obviously).
So it still does make sense to say things such as "it sounds good for its price".

That said, personally I still think that it does not only sound good for its price. I see it as an overall good sounding IEM. Not perfect, not the best by any means, but good.
If I were a billionaire and price would be completely irrelevant to me, I would not buy the 7hz Zero. But I do think that I would prefer the frequency response of this IEM over the vast majority of IEMs at any price point.

And I would not even say that this is entirely subjective. The 7hz is not very close to the Harman target, which is closest to an objective (intersubjective) benchmark. But what can be seen on any graph is that the 7hz Zero has a good peak and dip performance, which I consider important. I consider a Harman-ish IEM with a bad peak and dip performance as worse as an IEM which doesnt try to reach Harman but is coherent in its goal. The 7hz Zero performs its warm-neutral signature well, and most people who are looking for this kind of signature will probably like the Zero (like me).

Critisisms of the 7hz Zero I agree with include channel matching (still good for its price), product variation, the one-noteish upper treble and arguably the typical single BA driver downslope from 300 to 1000hz. So yes, it is not perfect and there are more expensive IEMs who perform this kind of signature slighly better. But they are still good in my opinion (at any price).

Besides, I dont think the case you posted is enough to claim that the build quality of the 7hz Zero is bad for its price. Of course it makes a huge difference if an IEM for 25$ might break early or an IEM for 2000$. The risk calculation is completely different.

And one thing I do feel able to judge is the build quality of the Zero as long as it works as it is supposed to do. And as I said, the stable and hardly microphonic cable really exceeded my expectations. Even if this IEM should break in 6 months - I dont expect it to happen - the value for money would still be okay.
 
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markanini

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given a counterexample with measurements to the mistaken belief that 'universal praise' in sighted listening prone to cognitive bias necessarily means good sound quality, both of which are myths pervasive in this hobby that I'm cautioning against.
Have you thought about why you prefer Sony MH755 over Truthear Zero? The Sony being an IEM that differs more significant from Harman IE and costs about the same? Counter to your personal preference you seem to advise Harman IE as the objective benchmark. How do you justify that?

I'll contrast with oratory1990 which regularly recommends headphones(that he measured) with preference scores in the 80s. This is someone you quote often and refer to as an expert.
 
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GaryH

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So it still does make sense to say things such as "it sounds good for its price".
It makes sense to say 'it sounds good', and 'it's inexpensive', but not 'it sounds good for its price'.
The 7hz is not very close to the Harman target
It actually has a higher predicted preference rating (85%), a measure of adherence to the Harman target, than the Truthear Zero (81%), in no small part due to the overall spectral tilt of the 7Hz being flatter than the Truthear's somewhat bright tilt (the latter mainly due to its broadband excess in the upper mids / lower treble).
Besides, I dont think the case you posted is enough to claim that the build quality of the 7hz Zero is bad for its price. Of course it makes a huge difference if an IEM for 25$ might break early or an IEM for 2000$. The risk calculation is completely different.
I've had my $5 Sony MH755's (and other cheap IEMs) for years and none of them have fallen apart.
 
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Vict0r

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I hear a lot of good things about these. I'm sure they're a killer value. Things mostly are when Crin is involved under a $100. I'm still sticking with my Moondrop Aria's, though. They're good enough. :)
 

markanini

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Whether in science or any hobby, I believe in truth, controlling for confounding variables so you don't come to false conclusions, backing up claims with evidence, and not proliferating disproven myths.
I think it's a win for the community that many get a chance to try a popular tuning and weigh in how much or little it matches their preference. Despite objective benchmarks (multiple ones) there's still a place for discussing subjective impressions, indeed amirm does give his at the end of every review.
 
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