Unfortunately no tips can be considered universal, it all depends on your ears and the iem shape, the very same tips can be perfect on an iem in your ears and give you no seal with another iem, so is really a matter of try and feel... I run my Zero fine with stock yellow tips from the first moment so didn't try other tips with it but on other iems i like a lot Tri Clarion and TRN T tips, they have a sort of stickiness that maybe can help you retaining them in your ears, they are also very cheap from Aliexpress that giving a try will not hurt.
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7Hz Salnotes Zero IEM Review
- Thread starter amirm
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If you increase the stereo width on these, they become a whole other level of fidelity and spaciousness when paired with some simple EQ filters.
Here is what worked for me on a mac
SoundSource for Mac - allows me to insert Effects into any output on my mac. What a piece of software!
140% stereo width, -2db on the output gain. I used a mastering EQ plugin called Amek 200 because it let me mono the bass below 70hz to make sure I wasn't widening bass accidentally. But you could try something like this for free, which I think does the same thing (except it's fixed and automatic): https://polyversemusic.com/products/wider/
Here's my Amek Settings.
Notes: I started at 150% stereo width, and found that to be good on some tracks, but terrible on others. Overall it made FX too present, so I dialed it down to compromise until I could hear a clear phantom centre and FX weren't overbearing. Vocals now sit directly between my ears and I can judge reverb decay almost as if I am listening in a room.
I used Pro-Q to dial in EQ Settings. For a transparent free EQ, ReaEQ is a great option but you'd need to guestimate a curve since ReaEQ has different labelling (bandwidth instead of Q). Thankfully, the curve is quite simple, so it shouldn't be too difficult to dial in whatever you use.
Sub Bass
Low Shelf: 14hz @ -0.5dB, Q = 0.3
Low Shelf: 106hz @ +05dB, Q = 9
Notes: the sub-bass doesn't really need much, but there is a 2.5dB sudden drop at around 100hz that slowly rises toward the bottom of human hearing, so "fixing" that to taste is what I am going for. Combined with the top-end treatment, I liked this result. a lot!
Midrange
Nothing. it's pretty much perfect, although a bell with a Q of 1 to reduce some "shout" in the upper midrange might be preferred by some listeners. Start with -0.5db centred at 3.5khz and see how that sounds.
Top end
Narrow Bell Shape: 12.7khz @ -5dB, Q = 10
High Shelf (seems to help little deficieny in the air): 20khz @ +1db Q = 0.3
Turn the Gain down on the EQ the same amount as your highest point of boosting to make sure nothing clips.
Here is the shape of the EQ.
My honest-to-goodness response when I started listening to all kinds of music with these tweaks was "Holy Sh***!!". I've never heard such fidelity in a pair of headphones before. The top end is smooth and airy, and the bottom end cranks deep and distortion-free. I can now locate panned FX and instruments with surprising precision, Reverbs and delays sing and dance all over the sound stage, and clarity is positively wonderful.
Here is what worked for me on a mac
SoundSource for Mac - allows me to insert Effects into any output on my mac. What a piece of software!
140% stereo width, -2db on the output gain. I used a mastering EQ plugin called Amek 200 because it let me mono the bass below 70hz to make sure I wasn't widening bass accidentally. But you could try something like this for free, which I think does the same thing (except it's fixed and automatic): https://polyversemusic.com/products/wider/
Here's my Amek Settings.
Notes: I started at 150% stereo width, and found that to be good on some tracks, but terrible on others. Overall it made FX too present, so I dialed it down to compromise until I could hear a clear phantom centre and FX weren't overbearing. Vocals now sit directly between my ears and I can judge reverb decay almost as if I am listening in a room.
I used Pro-Q to dial in EQ Settings. For a transparent free EQ, ReaEQ is a great option but you'd need to guestimate a curve since ReaEQ has different labelling (bandwidth instead of Q). Thankfully, the curve is quite simple, so it shouldn't be too difficult to dial in whatever you use.
Sub Bass
Low Shelf: 14hz @ -0.5dB, Q = 0.3
Low Shelf: 106hz @ +05dB, Q = 9
Notes: the sub-bass doesn't really need much, but there is a 2.5dB sudden drop at around 100hz that slowly rises toward the bottom of human hearing, so "fixing" that to taste is what I am going for. Combined with the top-end treatment, I liked this result. a lot!
Midrange
Nothing. it's pretty much perfect, although a bell with a Q of 1 to reduce some "shout" in the upper midrange might be preferred by some listeners. Start with -0.5db centred at 3.5khz and see how that sounds.
Top end
Narrow Bell Shape: 12.7khz @ -5dB, Q = 10
High Shelf (seems to help little deficieny in the air): 20khz @ +1db Q = 0.3
Turn the Gain down on the EQ the same amount as your highest point of boosting to make sure nothing clips.
Here is the shape of the EQ.
My honest-to-goodness response when I started listening to all kinds of music with these tweaks was "Holy Sh***!!". I've never heard such fidelity in a pair of headphones before. The top end is smooth and airy, and the bottom end cranks deep and distortion-free. I can now locate panned FX and instruments with surprising precision, Reverbs and delays sing and dance all over the sound stage, and clarity is positively wonderful.
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ParadisDruid
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Just complimenting that FabFilter uses a different definition for Q-factor to the vast mayority of other EQ plugins, in case you want to try these settings using for example a TDR plugin. I don't remember the exact conversion formula but it should be easy enough to find on the internet.
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That's helpful to know
It took a lot of revisions to arrive at this one, which I ended up liking better than a by the numbers recreation of target curve adjustments. Maybe it's just me, but I thought the adjustments made these little IEMs pretty sweet
That's helpful to know. I mostly listened to find what thought sounded nice with the numbers from Amir and Crinacle as a starting point.
It took a lot of revisions to arrive at this one, which I ended up liking better than a by the numbers recreation of target curve adjustments. Maybe it's just me, but I thought the adjustments made these little IEMs pretty sweet
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I started looking more into EQ curves that can be created with squigs, as my EQ settings from above still were too bright for me to consider them tonally neutral. So, I created an EQ curve that fixes the HF issues with the Salnotes ... I'm still figuring out what the various curves are. This picture is from the hangouts site of the resulting curve.
My method was simple: search up the Salnotes Zero on hangouts.audio
Use AutoEQ to get a baseline for adjustments, pictured below
Make Manual Adjustments to further deal with the peaks and valleys above 4khz.
The listening result
I did all of the above using just the numbers and the graph as my guide. I didn't listen until I was finished with the adjustments. The results in listening was the thought that IEMs are now stunningly accurate, deep and clear without being underrepresented or overrepresented in any band from 20hz-20khz. Everything in every octave is in it's place, with just a hint of HF sharpness that I want to try to keep working on.
It makes a huge difference to not have any spikes of more than a dB or two in the top end. Somehow, I also don't hear any phase issues, which I was worried about doing such large moves without a linear phase EQ. But these IEMS are obnoxiously bright without EQ, and the AutoEQ settings don't deal enough with that due to the nature of Q values and the need to combine EQ settings to get a desired result.
With these EQ settings, I believe I will be hard pressed to find better sounding headphones - though I will keep trying to
They are positively wonderful sounding now and I think they could be even better sounding with further tweaking. And with the ability of using a simple text file to EQ headphones using nothing more than mathematical values combined with a live graph that shows what the adjustments are doing, I believe it should be more than possible to create headphones with a small DSP chip in them that could apply a static or even various "colours" of correction like Harman 2018, B&K and others, thus effectively eliminating the need for extensive hardware-level tuning in favour of getting into the ballpark with the physical materials, and then complimenting the rest with a switchable EQ using a text-based parametric EQ DSP would take almost zero processing power and offer near-zero latency.
My method was simple: search up the Salnotes Zero on hangouts.audio
Use AutoEQ to get a baseline for adjustments, pictured below
Make Manual Adjustments to further deal with the peaks and valleys above 4khz.
The listening result
I did all of the above using just the numbers and the graph as my guide. I didn't listen until I was finished with the adjustments. The results in listening was the thought that IEMs are now stunningly accurate, deep and clear without being underrepresented or overrepresented in any band from 20hz-20khz. Everything in every octave is in it's place, with just a hint of HF sharpness that I want to try to keep working on.
It makes a huge difference to not have any spikes of more than a dB or two in the top end. Somehow, I also don't hear any phase issues, which I was worried about doing such large moves without a linear phase EQ. But these IEMS are obnoxiously bright without EQ, and the AutoEQ settings don't deal enough with that due to the nature of Q values and the need to combine EQ settings to get a desired result.
With these EQ settings, I believe I will be hard pressed to find better sounding headphones - though I will keep trying to
They are positively wonderful sounding now and I think they could be even better sounding with further tweaking. And with the ability of using a simple text file to EQ headphones using nothing more than mathematical values combined with a live graph that shows what the adjustments are doing, I believe it should be more than possible to create headphones with a small DSP chip in them that could apply a static or even various "colours" of correction like Harman 2018, B&K and others, thus effectively eliminating the need for extensive hardware-level tuning in favour of getting into the ballpark with the physical materials, and then complimenting the rest with a switchable EQ using a text-based parametric EQ DSP would take almost zero processing power and offer near-zero latency.
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Sonicfoam makes great tips comfy and isolating, there's the only one I can deal with they made me like iems, if you don't want to struggle again of making some yourself. Only 2 euros a pair. I've been listening the the 7hzs right now for 3 hours I don't feel them at all and the noise isolation is as good as my airpods pro with ANC on but the sub frequency where it falls a bit short.
olieb
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Thank you for the recommendation. But it is no struggle at all to produce the tips from ear plugs once you made the first one. But they are rather cheap indeed (though the earplugs are 40ct/pair).
And the fact that Sonicfoam produces 3 sizes makes me think that the foam is actually not as flexible and soft as the 3M ear plugs. Ear plugs are one size fits all because they expand four or fivefold (or more) easily without resulting in significant pressure in the ear.
But maybe I will check Sonicfoam tips out one day when I stumble over them.
marauder64
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I don't really understand the different ear plugs, you have 6 pairs (including the red already installed), there are not clear indication on the instructions about the dimensions.
edit: wrong thread
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This is a review for the 7Hz Salnote Zero. You have bought the 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 - which are newer, but equally excellent, if not better... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/7hz-x-crinacle-zero-2-iem-review.50534/
I agree with you regarding the stock cable, I use a Linsoul balanced one with my Zero2's...
I don't like the stock tips either. I have Moondrop Spring Tips on mine...
Moondrop Spring Tips Silicone Soft Earphone Ear-Tips for IEMs 3 Pairs
Acoustic Waveguide Structure Moondrop has designed the nozzle in Spring Ear Tips with acoustic waveguide structure verified by FEA finite element simulation technology. This acoustic waveguide structure greatly reduces the resonance of mid-treble sound waves. We get a smoothened treble frequency...
www.linsoul.com
marauder64
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My bad, posted now in the right threadThis is a review for the 7Hz Salnote Zero. You have bought the 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 - which are newer, but equally excellent, if not better... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/7hz-x-crinacle-zero-2-iem-review.50534/
I agree with you regarding the stock cable, I use a Linsoul balanced one with my Zero2's...
View attachment 398077
I don't like the stock tips either. I have Moondrop Spring Tips on mine...
Moondrop Spring Tips Silicone Soft Earphone Ear-Tips for IEMs 3 Pairs
Acoustic Waveguide Structure Moondrop has designed the nozzle in Spring Ear Tips with acoustic waveguide structure verified by FEA finite element simulation technology. This acoustic waveguide structure greatly reduces the resonance of mid-treble sound waves. We get a smoothened treble frequency...
Well yeah you're right it won't but as comfy as regular ear plugs. Let's say the sonic foams are the least uncomfortable tips i've found. I get sore after 3 hours of listening which is enough. Usually without them I want to take iems off after less than a hour. I've thought about doing you DIY solution before for motocycle rides but I couldn't justify the hassle since I've found them.
I purchased 2 pairs of those.
One with 3.5mm jack, the other one with USB-C.
The sound is pretty good.
I've been using them regularly for almost a year now.
Strangely, on one of them, the left channel level decreased progressively, until becoming almost muted.
Now I have the exact same issue on the second pair.
So I end up with 2 pairs with "broken" left channel.
Very strange.
One with 3.5mm jack, the other one with USB-C.
The sound is pretty good.
I've been using them regularly for almost a year now.
Strangely, on one of them, the left channel level decreased progressively, until becoming almost muted.
Now I have the exact same issue on the second pair.
So I end up with 2 pairs with "broken" left channel.
Very strange.
I didn’t know that a USB-C cable was an option. I have used mine with a 3.5mm connector periodically for two years with no problem. I assume you have tried different devices and tried switching the cable left to right.
You mean “the left channel level decreased progressively, until becoming almost muted” on both the 3.5mm and the USB version? The exact same failure mode?
Indeed.
I swapped the left channel from one cable to another and it remains.
So it's not the cable or DAC but the earphone itself.
Both left channels.
Very weird.
Oh, and it's not me turning deaf on left ear either (fortunately).
Both failed on left channel: 25% chances of happening (1/2 x 1/2) if you consider that one channel, L or R, is always going to fail first. So, weird… but not totally unlikely.
The progressively is interesting as it denotes a very specific failure mode: have you noticed differences between your left and right ears? For example:
> More ear wax on one ear (L), progressively plugging the IEM?
> More sweat on one ear, infiltrating into the IEM, and progressively seizing the IEM driver? Failures due to humidity/sweat are not uncommon…. Especially when using the IEMs for long periods (don’t have time to dry) or, obviously at the gym or for jogging.
> Often wearing one IEM only? I do that quite often when listening into teams meetings on my phone as a cheap “environment aware” mode. This could exacerbates one of the above failure mode or you may “ding” the left IEM more than the right one.
> Wearing the IEMs in bed and sleeping more often on one side vs. the other? May also exacerbate one of the above failure modes, or add a mechanical constraint factor.
> Other things that could be more Left than Right? I don’t think politics is a factor, but who knows: it’s a conspiracy !!!
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What's for sure is I have read a few reports now about the z2 slowly losing output in one or both channels. I suspect something of a weakness in design possibly around moisture / wax. Perhaps the more technically competent members with failed units could do a bit of cracking them open and inspecting?Both failed on left channel: 25% chances of happening (1/2 x 1/2) if you consider that one channel, L or R, is always going to fail first. So, weird… but not totally unlikely.
The progressively is interesting as it denotes a very specific failure mode: have you noticed differences between your left and right ears? For example:
> More ear wax on one ear (L), progressively plugging the IEM?
> More sweat on one ear, infiltrating into the IEM, and progressively seizing the IEM driver? Failures due to humidity/sweat are not uncommon…. Especially when using the IEMs for long periods (don’t have time to dry) or, obviously at the gym or for jogging.
> Often wearing one IEM only? I do that quite often when listening into teams meetings on my phone as a cheap “environment aware” mode. This could exacerbates one of the above failure mode or you may “ding” the left IEM more than the right one.
> Wearing the IEMs in bed and sleeping more often on one side vs. the other? May also exacerbate one of the above failure modes, or add a mechanical constraint factor.
> Other things that could be more Left than Right? I don’t think politics is a factor, but who knows: it’s a conspiracy !!!
I had the same problem on two zero units, taking out the filter and cleaning it with isopropyl alcohol solved that issues for me.
I tried that with my original pair of Zero 2's and it did not fix the issue - I ended up buying another pair.
However, I just got my old pair out and swapped the all three parts of the filter (metal, membrane and foam) between the units. The decrease in volume (which is fairly subtle) has now moved from the right to the left unit, which does indicate an issue with the filter.
The strange things is, that my left ear tends to be more waxy than my right ear, so I would expect the left unit to be impacted first, but it was the other way around. Maybe this is something to do with the foam filter picking up moisture, rather than the filter clogging?
If it's moisture, cleaning with IPA and then allowing to air dry should remove any water
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