7.2.4 external amplifier options

[ryanstroeder]

Hello,

Receiver: Denon x6700h
LR: Monitor Audio Silver 500's (90 db sens., 8 ohms, 250W RMS power handling)
C: Monitor Audio Silver C350 (90 db sens., 8 ohms, 200W RMS power handling) for my centre channel.
Surrounds: Monitor audio FX (87 db sens, 8 ohms, 85W power handling) [I am considering changing these out for more Klipsch R6560W]
Rear Surrounds: Klipsch R6560W II In-wall (93 db sens, 8 ohms, 50W RMS/200W Peak)
Atmos Speakers: Klipsch CDT-5650-C II In-Ceiling (94 dB sens, 8 ohms, 50W RMS/200 W Peak)

I am exploring options to externally power all my speakers to maximize sound performance and using the Denon 6700 as a processor only.

There is so much snake oil and bullshit marketing out there! I am so glad I found this forum!

Currently, I am evaluating reasonably priced options for external amplification and am considering using Buckeye here on this forum. Originally I was considering Monoproce or an Emotiva, but looking around I see mixed reviews. Can anyone comment on alternative manufacturers or give me some pointers as to options and things to consider?

Thank you in advance!

 

[M00ndancer]

Am I missing something here?
L + R + C+ Surr L + Surr R + Rear Surr L + Rear Surr L + Atmos?
7.0.4 is what I'm getting.
So you might not need any amps but 2 LFE Subwoofers?
The x6700h is fine, unless your running into clipping issues.
How large is your listening space?

 

[ryanstroeder]

Sorry if not clear, I will add my two Silver W-12 subwoofers to the post (they are internally powered, so not really relevant for external amplification of passive speakers). My room is 15 feet by 20 feet long and 8'9" high.

 

[Beershaun]

Welcome to ASR. there are a few small amplifier builders on this forum that provide well measuring digital amplifiers for very reasonable prices including multi-channel usage. Depending on where you are located. Check out the amplifier index. The ones that come to mind in no particular order are: US-VTV, Buckeye amps UK-Nord, AU-March audio.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/

 

[ryanstroeder]

Welcome to ASR. there are a few small amplifier builders on this forum that provide well measuring digital amplifiers for very reasonable prices including multi-channel usage. Depending on where you are located. Check out the amplifier index. The ones that come to mind in no particular order are: US-VTV, Buckeye amps UK-Nord, AU-March audio.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/

thanks for the welcome! I am very thankful to have found this forum.

In regards to your suggestions, how can I determine if an external amp would be needed? What metrics do I use other than by ear? Is it calculable?

 

[Matias]

+1 for Buckeye.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...amplifier-builder-line-up-announcement.16835/

I'd choose 4x NC252MP for the front trio and surrounds, and keep the atmos with the Denon.

 

[Beershaun]

Well I don't think external amplification is needed unless you are clipping your current amplifiers. If you want to explore what the difference would be you could start by getting one external amp. to run your front L/R speakers. That is a pretty common first step people take to see what the difference is.

Reasons I could think of for "needing" external amplification, is if you have a very large room and you are sitting far away from your speakers and really need to turn up the volume to make them loud enough. Providing room dimensions and seating distance would help.

 

[Vasr]

I am exploring options to externally power all my speakers to maximize sound performance and using the Denon 6700 as a processor only.

Unless you are able to articulate what "maximize audio performance" means to you, any suggestion is likely to be irrelevant or as so often happens a chorus of the latest fads/trends on the forum.

The solution will be very different and depends on whether it is
1. Better specs (SINAD or power) whether related to audibility or not. Or
2. Some deficiency with the current system that you have identified and want to solve or
3. An "upgradeitis" itch with a vague hope that it will "improve the sound" by simply acquiring more toys

 

[ryanstroeder]

Unless you are able to articulate what "maximize audio performance" means to you, any suggestion is likely to be irrelevant or as so often happens a chorus of the latest fads/trends on the forum.

The solution will be very different and depends on whether it is
1. Better specs (SINAD or power) whether related to audibility or not. Or
2. Some deficiency with the current system that you have identified and want to solve or
3. An "upgradeitis" itch with a vague hope that it will "improve the sound" by simply acquiring more toys

Thanks for the reply!

What I mean by that is that my curiosity was piqued when I learnt that the pre-outs on the Denon will output greater voltage if all internal amplification is turned off. That got me thinking that maybe I was missing out on something

 

[jcarys]

I have a fairly similar setup - Denon 6400 from a couple of generations prior and PSB speakers that are 90db sensitive in the room. I personally have never felt the need for additional amps. The Denon could definitely play at a level that would be deafening to me (and probably anyone). Noise levels are also impossible to detect by ear. I'm sure I could find amps that spec better, but I doubt it would make much audible difference. As some others have suggested, dip your toes in with something to drive your front left and right, and make a decision from there.

 

[Beershaun]

You may have already seen this, but in case you haven't take a look at Amir's updated review of the x6700 to get a sense of what range the AVR performs best in. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/denon-avr-x6700h-avr-review-updated.15484/

In terms of configuration options, I found this audioholics interview really helpful in understanding the various settings and options to give you a sense of how you could run a 2 channel external amp for just the front L/R.

here is an excerpt 10 minutes:

Here is the entire discussion 1hr 12min:

 

[ryanstroeder]

You may have already seen this, but in case you haven't take a look at Amir's updated review of the x6700 to get a sense of what range the AVR performs best in. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/denon-avr-x6700h-avr-review-updated.15484/

In terms of configuration options, I found this audioholics interview really helpful in understanding the various settings and options to give you a sense of how you could run a 2 channel external amp for just the front L/R.

here is an excerpt 10 minutes:

Here is the entire discussion 1hr 12min:

wow thank you for that. I will check the videos out, I hadn’t come across that before.

 

[rynberg]

Thanks for the reply!

What I mean by that is that my curiosity was piqued when I learnt that the pre-outs on the Denon will output greater voltage if all internal amplification is turned off. That got me thinking that maybe I was missing out on something

This is completely irrelevant if you are driving all speakers with the Denon. I would highly advise trying out just using the Denon before spending four figures on exterior amplification that may be unnecessary.

Also, if you haven't already installed the Klipsch in-walls and in-ceiling speakers, return them. They are god-awful in comparison to just about anything else you could buy, and far inferior to your Monitor Audio LCR and surrounds.

 

[ryanstroeder]

This is completely irrelevant if you are driving all speakers with the Denon. I would highly advise trying out just using the Denon before spending four figures on exterior amplification that may be unnecessary.

Also, if you haven't already installed the Klipsch in-walls and in-ceiling speakers, return them. They are god-awful in comparison to just about anything else you could buy, and far inferior to your Monitor Audio LCR and surrounds.

oh no! It has been explained to me in the other direction, that the sensitivity and sound quality of the Klipsch was superior and that I made a mistake by purchasing Monitor audio. can you explain? thanks

 

[Vasr]

What I mean by that is that my curiosity was piqued when I learnt that the pre-outs on the Denon will output greater voltage if all internal amplification is turned off. That got me thinking that maybe I was missing out on something

It would only be worth looking at if you found the Denon on its own not able to drive the speakers to the volume that you wanted and/or it ran very hot when driving all connected speakers.

 

[EJ3]

I am one (of the few here that like the Klipsch 'Vintage' speakers) for certain stereo music. As to their more modern stuff (I haven't heard them all) but generally not something I would buy. Please look at the tests on this sight (which confirms my feelings about the more modern Klipsch that I have heard (I am, in fact setting up a pair of them that a friend got cheap and have been telling him that he could have done light years better by spending $50-100 more. Based both on my hearing (possibly none too great) and the tests that I have seen on this site. In my humble opinion you are falling down a set of stairs by changing Klipsch for Monitors.

 

[rynberg]

oh no! It has been explained to me in the other direction, that the sensitivity and sound quality of the Klipsch was superior and that I made a mistake by purchasing Monitor audio. can you explain? thanks

My friend is installing ceiling speakers throughout his entire house (more than 20 speakers), so he has been auditioning many brands. The Klipsch ceiling speakers were dead last in audio quality out of over 10 brands. Unlike their in-room speakers, they were all midrange, with no bass or treble, and the midrange was horribly colored.

Do yourself a favor and go on Crutchfield and use their speaker comparator. They have a lot of the ceiling speakers in the comparator. While it's far from perfect, you can clearly hear the character each speaker. Listen to a neutral model like a Revel and then the Klipsch. The differences are huge.

 

[ryanstroeder]

My friend is installing ceiling speakers throughout his entire house (more than 20 speakers), so he has been auditioning many brands. The Klipsch ceiling speakers were dead last in audio quality out of over 10 brands. Unlike their in-room speakers, they were all midrange, with no bass or treble, and the midrange was horribly colored.

Do yourself a favor and go on Crutchfield and use their speaker comparator. They have a lot of the ceiling speakers in the comparator. While it's far from perfect, you can clearly hear the character each speaker. Listen to a neutral model like a Revel and then the Klipsch. The differences are huge.

Thanks for the comment, I've never seen that SpeakerCompare feature. I will check it out!