64 Audio U12t Review (IEM)

[192kbps]

 

[Chyżwar]

I'm just wondering, how audible is that distortion at 2% level or higher?

5% THD at 75dB or 85dB is audible. At 114 dB is probably inaudible, especially when listening to music.

 

[beagleman]

For the price quoted, I voted "Poor", as the value is very low.

If they were, for example, $99-$199... I would say Fine or Great possibly.

But having worked in manufacturing, and realizing that many things produced are simply a handful of parts that cost quite literally only a few dollars each, AT MOST......!

Most of the cost, is in packaging, PROFIT, labor, engineering, and other costs, but MOSTLY mark up and PROFIT, Otherwise why be in business....

I think you guys, (In GENERAL) tend to overestimate how much it really costs to make something. Parts We used, literally cost often well under ONE dollar, Often just pennies when in huge quantities....and the mark up and costs accounted for literally about 80-90% of the final item.

 

[Zensō]

Meh. The audiophile tax is too high with these; there are better IEMs available for a fraction of the cost. Thanks for the review!

 

[Wegi76]

I own U12Ts and also was missing something in the highs. Short Silicon Tips (Azla Sednafit Short) helped to emphasize the 10K area, but still EQ was needed. My EQ profile is not as drastic as Amirs but the treated areas are very similar. Always wondered if I was alone with these impressions and it seems like my inability to hear much beyond 12.x KHz is a factor too... The U12Ts "come back" around 15KHz, which I simply cannot hear. Thanks for the nive review, Amir.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

For the price quoted, I voted "Poor", as the value is very low.

If they were, for example, $99-$199... I would say Fine or Great possibly.

But having worked in manufacturing, and realizing that many things produced are simply a handful of parts that cost quite literally only a few dollars each, AT MOST......!

Most of the cost, is in packaging, PROFIT, labor, engineering, and other costs, but MOSTLY mark up and PROFIT, Otherwise why be in business....

I think you guys, (In GENERAL) tend to overestimate how much it really costs to make something. Parts We used, literally cost often well under ONE dollar, Often just pennies when in huge quantities....and the mark up and costs accounted for literally about 80-90% of the final item.

Quite fun to watch:

 

[YSC]

Interesting read here for comparison, with the UERR generally considered really neutral among professions we can see that it is so close to the 64audio curve, except the bass boost in the Harman curve. The interesting part is the around post 1khz mark they pretty much follows the same trend. Just wonders would ie be because in ear are inserted deeper into ear canal and should be have less of the mid to high boost from ear canal transfer function and thus resulting in this pattern?

 

[PeteL]

For the price quoted, I voted "Poor", as the value is very low.

If they were, for example, $99-$199... I would say Fine or Great possibly.

But having worked in manufacturing, and realizing that many things produced are simply a handful of parts that cost quite literally only a few dollars each, AT MOST......!

Most of the cost, is in packaging, PROFIT, labor, engineering, and other costs, but MOSTLY mark up and PROFIT, Otherwise why be in business....

I think you guys, (In GENERAL) tend to overestimate how much it really costs to make something. Parts We used, literally cost often well under ONE dollar, Often just pennies when in huge quantities....and the mark up and costs accounted for literally about 80-90% of the final item.

Define huge quantities. I am not at all saying that this should be priced that high, no. But out of curiosity how many a year of these they sell you think? And what is the BOM cost? Those two number are closely related, In fact all of the numbers you are talking about are closely related because all the fixed cost, Engineering, labor and all have to be distributed by unit cost if you want to know how much a product cost. In your experience, how much did the metal injection mold costed for this? (close to 20k, I give it to you) I also had a small company in the past "manufacturing" audio products. I put the quote mark in manufacturing because I didn't obviously had the money to have a full Electronic assembly line, but we did final assembly. I made the junior mistake many do of greatly underestimating how much it would cost, and tried to be competitive with major companies, and that's the main reason I am not in business anymore. Unfortunately, for small players, the only way to stay in business is to have undemocratic pricing and forget to try to appeal to the masses. You take your exemple, you put this product 200$, 10 time cheaper, you are not only going to sell 10 times more, you may sell a hundred times more, and the cost per unit may end up a hundred times cheaper if not more. But you have to HAVE the money to produce that much, and you have to have the marketing force to sell that much, It's a huge risk. That's the reason In the headphone market, more than 95% of the market belong to Apple, Bose, Beats and Sony. Everybody else gets crumbs. Just to show that the fact that many electronic parts cost 25 cents, is just a tiny part of the equation. And by the way, even larger companies like Sennheiser have Products in this segment. I am not in the position to say that this product does better or worse, But I can say for a fact that the IE900 cost considerably less to make than this. Just because, Sennheiser.
P.S. If packaging cost more than your electronics BOM, you have a huge problem...

Edit: from seeing the video above, looks like they could be fully routed and not molded, but that don't make that cheaper, unit cost go off the roof and well, you dont have to pay for the mold but the router itself is, well... You get the point.

 

[sq225917]

Knowles BA units are anywhere in the $5-50 price range depending on model, single or duals. Figure if you're using thousands of them and buying direct from Knowles you might see that closer to $3-30.

So that can stack up quickly in a 10 BA unit, potentially $200 just for drivers. Add in shells, build, xo, packaging, marketing, and real r and d if you're developing your own smorgasbord of three letter acronyms like these guys do. $2000 isn't unreasonable.

Think what a USA assembled iPhone would cost, 5x ad much as what we have now?

So they have to focus on a premium niche to stay in business and keep jobs in the USA.

 

[PeteL]

Interesting read here for comparison, with the UERR generally considered really neutral among professions we can see that it is so close to the 64audio curve, except the bass boost in the Harman curve. The interesting part is the around post 1khz mark they pretty much follows the same trend. Just wonders would ie be because in ear are inserted deeper into ear canal and should be have less of the mid to high boost from ear canal transfer function and thus resulting in this pattern?

I think the "Harman bass" debate will remain unsolved... It's a preference curve, some find it too much, some find it just right. We do need a reference, but it's still OK to go with what pleases you subjectively. Me personally I would take deep bass extension over elevated bass, if I had to pick only one.

 

[MZKM]

Took out my spl meter to hear (on different headphones, not in-ears) how loud 94, 104, and 114 dB are. Couldn't go over 94 dB which is already far louder than I am normally listening to. At 94 dB, distortion is mostly below 0.5% except for the range between 300 and 600 Hz where it reaches up to 0.75 percent. No issue for me.

My only gripe with the U12t is the lack of treble energy above 5 kHz, or to be precise, between 5 and 15 kHz. This gives it a relaxed presentation that works well for some genres (and moods), but leaves to be desired for others.

114dB would be for testing peak SPL, not continuous.

 

[MZKM]

Individual target response in bass for IEMs will differ by nature of it bypassing the pinna.

Regardless, any target response you look at will have this IEM being recessed at 3kHz.

I like IEMs, but this style’s form factor (the kind used by live performers) are never comfortable for more than a few songs, but oddly only for left ear.

In the area I circled, in my left ear every IEM I have tried of this form factor pushes up against it and actually hurts after a while (I just pushed up in it a minute ago and I still feel it).

The only in-ears I can wear are your traditional kind, like my 1More ones:

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

Knowles BA units are anywhere in the $5-50 price range depending on model, single or duals. Figure if you're using thousands of them and buying direct from Knowles you might see that closer to $3-30.

So that can stack up quickly in a 10 BA unit, potentially $200 just for drivers. Add in shells, build, xo, packaging, marketing, and real r and d if you're developing your own smorgasbord of three letter acronyms like these guys do. $2000 isn't unreasonable.

Think what a USA assembled iPhone would cost, 5x ad much as what we have now?

So they have to focus on a premium niche to stay in business and keep jobs in the USA.

Not only that, but to be very fair and considerate, the higher something go in price the worse the "price/performance" aspect will be.
So people comparing P/P ratio of these IEMs is just going to waste time. What they should consider is how good these IEMs sound and feel on their ears, and the estimated durability along with post-purchase service.

 

[Miiksuli]

That 2-4kHz area is also easy to EQ with smartphones. Also EarFun Air Pro 2 measures very well at rtings. It's only 80$. Wireless, with ANC and hybrid ANC.

People seriously need to stop buying these 2000$ IEM's.

 

[PeteL]

Individual target response in bass for IEMs will differ by nature of it bypassing the pinna.

Regardless, any target response you look at will have this IEM being recessed at 3kHz.

I like IEMs, but this style’s form factor (the kind used by live performers) are never comfortable for more than a few songs, but oddly only for left ear.

In the area I circled, in my left ear every IEM I have tried of this form factor pushes up against it and actually hurts after a while (I just pushed up in it a minute ago and I still feel it).

The only in-ears I can wear are your traditional kind, like my 1More ones:

I really dig this form factor, for similar reasons.

They look a little fragile but they have been very reliable for years. No Harman bass there, but for me it's a very enjoyable neutralish sonic signature.

 

[CarlToft]

I have tested others. I use them all the time during summer to block out noise. Regular headphones are either too hot if closed, or don't block noise if open. I also wear them outdoors.

Can you maybe review the 7HZ timeless? I like them a lot, but the standard tips didn't create any seal.

 

[Earfonia]

64 Audio U12t Measurements
Let's start with our usual dashboard and special target for IEMs:
View attachment 197327

After the 7kHz dip we usually see the the resonance peak at around 8kHz - 11kHz (depending on the insertion depth), I'm wondering why the U12t has such deep dive after the 7kHz onward. Understand that with the GRAS high-res coupler RA0402 the resonance peak is going to be lower, but I don't expect such a deep dive like shown in the graph. Hopefully the upper treble response is still good for an IEM at this price range.

The supposedly around 2.7kHz primary peak seems to start a bit too early, but I heard some IEMs with early primary peak close to 2kHz and some of them sound just fine to me, so shouldn't be an issue. The 5kHz peak (I call it clarity peak) is higher than the primary peak indicating some emphasize on clarity. So my guess is this is a clarity oriented V-shape tuned IEM. But airiness is questionable with that deep dive after the 7kHz.

 

[mrbungle]

Not only that, but to be very fair and considerate, the higher something go in price the worse the "price/performance" aspect will be.
So people comparing P/P ratio of these IEMs is just going to waste time. What they should consider is how good these IEMs sound and feel on their ears, and the estimated durability along with post-purchase service.

I would have a lot of others toys to buy before I’m willing to drop 2k on IEMs, so I get the focus on price here. My Moondrops are all I need, but there are obvious compromises made to get the price down, in particular build quality, accessories, sound (bass) and, if you need it, support. None of which I see here with the U12t, and for half the price, I could see myself impulsively pulling the trigger at some moment of weakness. Distortion wouldn’t be an issue for me since I keep the volume healthy and don’t need a lot of EQ, in particular with IEMs.

 

[sam_adams]

But how do they sound?

 

[Miiksuli]

I would have a lot of others toys to buy before I’m willing to drop 2k on IEMs, so I get the focus on price here. My Moondrops are all I need, but there are obvious compromises made to get the price down, in particular build quality, accessories, sound (bass) and, if you need it, support. None of which I see here with the U12t, and for half the price, I could see myself impulsively pulling the trigger at some moment of weakness. Distortion wouldn’t be an issue for me since I keep the volume healthy and don’t need a lot of EQ, in particular with IEMs.

And when companies do their high end pricey headphones and iems some people will start to think they are the best and they need it. Then they focus too much on them and they go crazy if they have money and if they don't they take a quick loan or something. But I personally think the truth is between pricey headphones and cheap one. I can't wait @amirm to measure Nectar Hive. It's one of the cheapest estats out there.