$5000 Audio Gear Upgrade: Benefits & Regrets

[EWL5]

From the Marantz Cinema60 manual:

“Use speakers with an impedance of 4 – 16 Ω/ohms. When connecting speakers with different impedances, set the impedance based on the speaker with the lowest impedance.”

Before connecting speakers CINEMA 60

manuals.marantz.com

I can see years of audio experience will be ignored. You do you!

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

I can see years of audio experience will be ignored. You do you!

I clicked on the "limp mode" link you provided, but may have missed the recommended course of action. Is it ASR best practice to leave an HTR at its default impedance, typically 8 ohms?

 

[jcmccorm]

The Yamaha Aventage line *does* allow you to set different crossover frequencies for L/R, C, Surround, Back Surround, and ATMOS.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I clicked on the "limp mode" link you provided, but may have missed the recommended course of action. Is it ASR best practice to leave an HTR at its default impedance, typically 8 ohms?

Yes

 

[ZolaIII]

The Yamaha Aventage line *does* allow you to set different crossover frequencies for L/R, C, Surround, Back Surround, and ATMOS.

It It really depends on what it is. Firstly it is rail V limiter switch but it's not intend to be sever limiting in most cases and more free handed OEM's make sure it even so delivers as specified. ASR has a practice and there where cuple intense debates regarding methodology that you are free to search for reactive loads. My personal advice is to avoid butchering speakers which are that for both amplifier and them self deeaping under 3 Ohms and still pay attention to phase impedance angles in not easy to run range (behind woofer fundamental where they cross). The declarative default of output power in 8 Ohms date from good old DIN. Today you have modern AB (G) and SoM alike D (H) amps in home/PA segment that can push 2 Ohms on reactive loads in very low frequency range have 250W to 1KW. Bridging is direct bridging of two outputs in one chenel, that way they can do only twice higher impedance as minimal but output up to 2.5x more power.

 

[EWL5]

I clicked on the "limp mode" link you provided, but may have missed the recommended course of action. Is it ASR best practice to leave an HTR at its default impedance, typically 8 ohms?

Yes.

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

Update: I reset both my HTRs to back to default impedance = 8 ohms. Not sure why the manufacturers (both Marantz & Yamaha) recommend changing impedance to either 4/6 ohm settings for higher end speakers. Maybe they're worried about an overheating issue(?)

After resetting my HTRs back to default impedance, I streamed the horror film Undertone. That's a terrific home theater film. I was really happy with my Wharfedales, particularly how the Diamond surrounds performed during that film.

 

[EWL5]

Update: I reset both my HTRs to back to default impedance = 8 ohms. Not sure why the manufacturers (both Marantz & Yamaha) recommend changing impedance to either 4/6 ohm settings for higher end speakers. Maybe they're worried about an overheating issue(?)

After resetting my HTRs back to default impedance, I streamed the horror film Undertone. That's a terrific home theater film. I was really happy with my Wharfedales, particularly how the Diamond surrounds performed during that film.

Hopefully you understand now that you were creating a "power suck" by using the lower impedance mode.

Having said that, I would have gotten the Cinema 50 or the cheaper corporate clone Denon 3800 if you had asked for a rec. At least the 3800 was benchmarked here on ASR and passed the lower impedance test w/flying colors. I don't believe the Cinema 60/Denon 2800 were ever benchmarked here.

https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/marantz-cinema-60/denon-avr-x2800h

 

[SKBubba]

Speaker Upgrade/Center Speaker: Polk-XT35 ($230). Result = Regret. Ok for home theater, terrible for music. Truth be told, I'm never happy with any center channel speaker.

If you listen to music, use stereo mode with audyssey enabled. It will play using only L/R + sub(s).

 

[peng]

If your speakers are rated at 4 ohms, and your HTR is capable of supporting 4/6/8 ohm speakers, then why would setting the HTR to 4 ohms "rob your speakers of power"? If I understand Ohm’s law correctly:

I = V/R. The lower the denominator (R = resistance), the higher the current (I).

The Wharfedale 5.2 EVO Bookshelf speaker is three-way, check specs below. The EVO 5 Center speaker is two-way.

https://www.wharfedaleusa.com/produ...jQkPfBOld_4M1H7KPfdnu6AxP2RVTKiZXa3wFMfx1o8uk

I = V/R, so if voltage is lowered, current (I) will be lowered with R remains the same.

It is not just Ohm's law, there is the power formula you need to look at:

Power (P) = IR, or V^2/R, or I^2*R so you can see that when you limit current (I), you will also limit P with R being the same.

Your Cinema 60 is rated 100 W, 8 ohms so it can certainly drive your EVO unless you listen loud enough to overload the amps. If you are concerned, then you should use an online calculator, or calculate it yourself, to estimate the maximum "power" (I prefer V and I but..) you need in your use case, there are many such calculator, the one linked below is an example.

Peak SPL Calculator

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

If you listen to music, use stereo mode with audyssey enabled. It will play using only L/R + sub(s).

The problem: I have a lot of 5.1 mixes in Blu-ray/DTS/DVD Audio. I recently dropped $$$ on eBay picking up Beatles 5.1 mixes from Revolver to Abbey Road at $50 a pop. Also Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, and Fleetwood Mac's Rumours--although these discs were more reasonably priced, around $25 via Amazon (still less than vinyl).

I may bite the bullet and pick up Wharfedale's EVO 5.C center speaker, which matches my EVO 5.2 fronts. But that's an expensive center, currently $650 via Crutchfield.

 

[peng]

The problem: I have a lot of 5.1 mixes in Blu-ray/DTS/DVD Audio. I recently dropped $$$ on eBay picking up Beatles 5.1 mixes from Revolver to Abbey Road at $50 a pop. Also Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, and Fleetwood Mac's Rumours--although these discs were more reasonably priced, around $25 via Amazon (still less than vinyl).

I may bite the bullet and pick up Wharfedale's EVO 5.C center speaker, which matches my EVO 5.2 fronts. But that's an expensive center, currently $650 via Crutchfield.

Would you also bite the bullet and trade in the Cinema 60 for the Cinema 50? Or the Denon AVR-X3800H.

Even if you don't plan on adding channels, the C50 and X3800H have two major features that will almost for sure offer you audibly better sound quality:

- Audyssey XT32 Sub EQ HT (included)
- Dirac Live, from the basic multichannel, to DLBC (with bass control that optimize phase responses), and ART (Active room treatment). These are paid upgrade options.

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

Would you also bite the bullet and trade in the Cinema 60 for the Cinema 50? Or the Denon AVR-X3800H.

Even if you don't plan on adding channels, the C50 and X3800H have two major features that will almost for sure offer you audibly better sound quality:

- Audyssey XT32 Sub EQ HT (included)
- Dirac Live, from the basic multichannel, to DLBC (with bass control that optimize phase responses), and ART (Active room treatment). These are paid upgrade options.

I'm sure everything above is true, but for moral/ethical reasons I'm not returning an $1800 HTR unless it's objectively "defective". The fact that I may have overlooked better gear at a similar price point is on me.

 

[peng]

I'm sure everything above is true, but for moral/ethical reasons I'm not returning an $1800 HTR unless it's objectively "defective". The fact that I may have overlooked better gear at a similar price point is on me.

That's why I said "Trade in", not return, but if you ordered the C60 online then I guess you won't have such option.

 

[SKBubba]

The problem: I have a lot of 5.1 mixes

You could disable the center channel and it will mix a phantom center into l/r. Pain to switch back and forth for movies, but might sound better. Some newer denons have buttons to save different speaker configurations, maybe your marantz has that.

 

[krabapple]

FWIW, the Wharfedale EVO 4.1 that Amir Klippeled had some issues....

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

You could disable the center channel and it will mix a phantom center into l/r. Pain to switch back and forth for movies, but might sound better. Some newer denons have buttons to save different speaker configurations, maybe your marantz has that.

I’ve actually thought about that—even going phantom center for music & films. I’ve currently got a pair of $1400 Wharfedale Evo fronts matched with a $230 Polk XT center. More expensive doesn’t always mean “better”, but I’ve seen several people recommend matching your center with your fronts.

 

[thcdru2k]

I do not mind center spread when listening to upmix music. It distributes the dialog to left/right channels so the center doesn't stick out when listening to upmixed music.

 

[DeadBeatAnon]

Update: removed my Polk XT-35 Center from my 5.1 home theater. Updated my HTR config, so it's now a "4.1" home theater with a phantom center.
Current Setup: Marantz Cinema 60, Wharfedale EVO 5.2 fronts, Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 surrounds, Polk PSW-10 sub.

Source material: "Greenland" on HBO (plot: a fragmentary comet strikes the earth). Streamed via Roku 4K Ultra with Dolby Atmos. Soundscape includes lots of apocalyptic explosions from comet fragments; rifle fire bursts at an overrun military base; also civilian chaos--rioting, looting and street-level gunfire. Gunshots inside a looted pharmacy made me jump.

Good News: no more distortion at high volume (which is why I pulled the Polk center). Overall an awesome 4.1 performance regarding Sound EFX.

Bad News: dialogue definitely not as clear--so the Polk center was performing it's primary function. I just hate the distortion that comes with it.
I'm now in a curious spot. I'm going to reconnect the Polk center and raise the crossover from 100 Hz to 120 Hz ( Polk XT-35 low frequency rating = 83 Hz).
If that doesn't fix things, then I'm looking at buying another center speaker.

 

[EWL5]

Have you recalibrated Audyssey since you possibly had the impedance switch in an undesirable position the 1st time you calibrated?

You may also want to consider bringing back the center channel for this recal since you should no longer have the "power suck".